He appears to be successful, good looking, and articulate. Sure, he has his particular tastes when it comes to women, just like anyone else. And he happens to be average height – 5’8″ or thereabouts.
Have we forgotten what average height is for an American man, though our culture promotes Tall Tall Tall as the sexy ideal?
The fact is, I don’t know the gentleman, but his comments remind me of one thing and it’s this: Height discrimination is alive and well in the US, and no more so than in online dating.
Especially for men.
I’m stuck on a conversation that has me delving into my own behaviors, compliments of comments at Huffington Post that meandered their way from divorce dramas to marital mindsets to online offal – yes, offal – whatever is trashed or considered refuse. And in that discussion, the issue of height requirements for men has, well… arisen.
Short-Sighted
I realize I’ve indulged in this dreadful bias myself – comical to some as I am a wee woman in Big Shoes, yet practical for me in many other ways.
I’ve joked about it for years having generally dated men who range in height from 5’11” to 6’3″, and I had one infamous date with a veritable giant of 7’4″. (No kidding.) The reality is, having been invisible for most of my life, I enjoyed finding myself on the arm of a man who could see over the crowd, the cubicle wall, or for that matter – hoist me on his shoulders without a second thought.
Along with amusement from those who might see us (cue the Mutt and Jeff comments), the theory that opposites attract (yes, that, too), and the fact that my Mr. Wonderful(ly Tall) could reach whatever I couldn’t – I always deemed the arrangement fabulous. And it was also compensation – something I don’t think I understood until I began reflecting on this topic.
In my short-sighted habits, was I ignoring good men who were 5’6″ or 5’7″ in the process? Or any height for that matter?
Possibly, though I was typically approached by tall men with a penchant for the petite. I was also operating out of purposeful pragmatism: Should I ever marry and bear children, I needed to up the odds of average height with a proud poppa of the taller type. And that was important to me, knowing the issues I had overcome, being a woman of diminutive stature.
It’s As Easy to Fall in Love With…
While some women live by the adage of “it’s as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one,” I admit I’ve never been money-driven (does that explain the state of my bank accounts?), but I practiced my own version of that wonky wisdom: It’s as easy to fall in love with a tall man as a short one.
And that’s been true – for much of my life, and no less so after having married a tall man and giving birth to two sons who are, as hoped, in the “average” zone of 5’7″ or 5’8″.
Of course, a little research reveals that my notions of “average height” are outdated. Did you know that in 1960, the average height for an American male was 5’8″ and it is now just over 5’9″?
Stretching to the average height for a woman (5’4″) only in my steadfast stilettos, I nonetheless continued to search out tall men during my Love-Hate relationship with online dating. And by tall, I mean 6’0 or over, though I was content with men of 5’10” or thereabouts, which seems silly now – even as I write it!
Men of Stature?
In an ongoing dialog, the gentleman I reference above, at 5’7.5″, writes:
As far as meeting women in person instead of online… Before I started using online dating when I was 42, I never thought about my height. I went 42 years without it feeling like it was an issue. It is true that online dating for me coincided with moving to Manhattan, where women care more about height than anywhere else. But my experience in the real world has been good enough that online dating was a shock…
… ultimately it hurt my self-esteem more than it helped me find women I wanted to meet. For me, online dating was an opportunity to be rejected by less attractive women than I could successfully pick up at events and parties. It was like transferring from a great school where my gpa was 3.6 or something to a bad school where I was given C’s.
And I get it. I’ve been on the giving end. I’ve been on the receiving end. While I’ve never taken a deep dive into the study of height, called auxology in case you’re wondering, I’m well aware that we are a heightist society.
Height of Presidents, Height and Pay Gap
Incidentally, physical stature is less of an issue in France than the US, and perhaps this is one of the reasons I’ve felt more comfortable when living in Paris. On that note, all politics aside, I find myself thinking that Nicolas Sarkozy (reportedly anywhere from 5’5″ to 5’7″) would never have been elected in the US.
May we stop for a moment and consider the height of our recent presidents?
- Barack Obama: 6’1″
- George W. Bush: 5’11.5″
- Bill Clinton: 6’2″
- George H. W. Bush: 6’2″
- Ronald Reagan: 6’1″
- Jimmy Carter: 5’9.5″ – The shortest in 35+ years!
(In case you’re wondering, Abe Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson tie for the tallest president ever – at 6’4″ and James Madison was the shortest, at 5’4″ – taking office in 1808.)
By the way, short on height may also translate to short on pay. Studies reflect that tall people earn more – as much as $789 more per inch.
Huh. Along with issues of gender pay gap, do I need to ratchet up my heel heights?
Tall Man, Small Man: How Shall We Value You?
As for that fascinating (appalling?) data on height and pay, you’ll remind me we cannot attribute causation, and I will agree. Nonetheless, don’t you find it intriguing and even telling? Don’t we project leadership and competence onto those who are tall?
And that Napoleon Complex we assume kicks in – is it with good reason, or stereotyping? (In case you’re wondering, Napoleon was roughly 5’6″ which was not short in his era.)
Shall we reconsider our heightist bias, and not assume that a Tall Man is a good man (or a “valuable” man – however you define that), any more than a Small Man – in stature – is a “small” man in any way that counts?
These days, I’m dating a man who is 5’5″ and the fact is he’s a “big” man in all ways that matter – big heart, big brains, big funny bone, big passion for life – and yours truly. I’m guessing I would have passed him by had I perused his profile online, and purely on the height dimension.
How small that makes me feel. And what a loss that would have been – certainly for me.
Online Venues… Strife and Simu-Life
Don’t get me wrong. Online dating brought me friendships, relationships, and other adventures. I love my online venues, but I pick and choose, I take steps back, and I find I’m always best able to balance life as we perceive it on our displays with life as it is – when we encounter it in person. But that requires me to get off my island and get out into the world.
I raise this issue because the man in question has apparently decided to retire from the online world in entirety. What that means exactly I don’t know. But I understand the reaction; it’s something I did periodically during my online dating years – disappearing from sites for six to twelve months. As in his case, the process of being reviewed and dismissed chipped away at my confidence and my sense of self.
Here is his remark, excerpted and paraphrased:
Online dating is the worst idea for short guys who tend to be successful in real life. Also bad for older guys who look much younger (unless they want to lie).
I’m one week free and clear of online dating. My goal for April is to be free and clear of all internet sites….
Might we find a middle ground? Might we use our good judgment? A mix of Real World and sites that suit us, whether we’re speaking of online dating or anything else? Could we consider tossing the superficial and not judging a book – or a man – by the cover?
Online life has its advantages; but there’s nothing like getting to know each others’ voices, scent, energy, sparkle, character. A big man in the truest sense of the word beats a tall one – shoes off, and hands down. Still – when faced with the choice, and assumptions of leadership or even personality, do you recognize your own bias?
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So if I was 5′ 5″ insted of 6′ 4″, I’d be single and a cab driver? Gawd, tell me that isn’t true. I know that Tom Cruise doesn’t think so. ;0)
Well, Gandalfe, I used to encounter Russian PhDs driving cabs in NYC, though that’s been a few years, I admit. But let’s just say, unless you can shimmy in your underwear or tackle impossible missions… be grateful for your height excess in a society that likes everything super-sized, except it’s women’s waistlines.
That data about the correlation between height and salary is fascinating indeed!
I am on the tall side (5’8″) and all of my relationships have been with men my height or taller (my husband is 6’1″). I’ve often wondered from whence my seeming preference for taller men stems – perhaps it’s because I come from tall stock? (At 6’4″, my dad is the shortest of his brothers!) Or perhaps I’m simply falling into cultural stereotypes that make a woman feel more feminine when on the arm of a “bigger” man?
Delicious food for thought!
I’m 6’1″”, BLW ! Do we arrange a rendez-vous? 🙂
Tiens, François… à Paris ? Quelle bonne idée. Je crois que mon ami serait content de m’accompagner… 😉
I remember in high school being fairly short (my final height of 5’2 & 3/4 “) and thinking I was lucky because so many of the really cute guys were short. My uncles (by adoption) were 6’6″ and 6’7″ but neither of them has been remarkably successful. Heaven knows what they would have been had they been short. Hang on, the taller one managed to get a plumb job that allowed him to retire on full benefit at something like 40… I’ve never thought of it but H1 was 6’1″, H2 was 5’11” (but swore he was 6.0), Bill is 5’8 or 9″ and the best of the lot.
Well, I’m tall – 5’8″ so I’ve always had a preference for tall men. But height is one area that I don’t think women have to carry the same physical bias like men do. Each gender has their own burden to deal with. I can think of 2 or 3 for men….when size matters – or so we like to joke.
Like when I see a pickup with really big tires and an oversized exhaust pipe, I automatically think, small man syndrome. I’ve heard it said (half jokingly) that all the world’s problems have at their root, religion or small men. Both bad. Both stereotypes. Both biased.
Good judgment and middle ground are both wise, BLW, and much more compassionate.
Mais oui à Paris, BLW 🙂 Et votre ami est le bienvenu “of course!”. Plus on est de fous plus on rit, comme on dit en France! 🙂
This is an interesting topic, Wolf. My husband is considered very tall by Indian standards. He is 6 feet. My daughter is also tall for her age. Often times, especially in an Indian person setting, I hear comments on their height. Cultural notions about height is an intriguing subject.
Wow, so glad you wrote about this! I’ve had a marked preference for shorter men all my life! They seemed more “compact”, easier and more fun to wrestle with :-). I have always been annoyed and bored by the “tall, dark and handsome” stereotype. In fact, I almost dismissed a Frenchman for that reason, who is turning out to be far more substantial than I had assumed at first glance. My first thought was “he’s probably full of himself”.
DaveysHouse… delighted you enjoyed (and are getting to know the pleasures of a fine French man). 😉
As we get older, I think we all relax our “standards,” which would have made us happier could we have done so earlier. Another instance of youth being wasted on the young.
I had a first date this afternoon with a petite woman and I brought up this subject as an honourary DPoC field reporter, she had an interesting comment that she has the luxury of not worrying about height at all since most men are taller, she gets to focus less on stats and more on just her intuition.
In a gender equality moment, I had the good fortune to have another date last night and it turns out both her and the woman today pay alimony to their ex-husband. The Virgina Slims tagline, “You’ve come a long way baby” in a new modern twist. Your mileage may vary of course but with prolonged economic upheaval, this could be something we see more of in the future.
Batticus! A field reporter… Just what I need. I’ll take as many “field reporters” and reports as you (or others) care to provide. These are fascinating topics.
i’m a 5’3″ female and have always preferred men ‘in my own time zone’ as I like to put it. For me, tall men have always appeared gangly, esp if they are thin, and honestly, I like to be able to look a guy in the eyes. Having to strain my neck uncomfortably upward in order to talk to a guy standing in front of me? No thanks. I also like the compactness of shorter guys, though that said, I like them with some ‘meat’ on them. 😉
After 5 torturous years of venturing through online dating using 5 ’10 as a screening factor, I’m now dating a guy who is 5’8 who I met through a biz group I joined. Getting to know him gradually in our group before dating him has caused me to realize that evaluating men to date by height is way too limiting.
This blog made me think of my early 20’s, as I was rejected by the foxes who chased after the Alfa males and showed no more interest in me than glancing at a blade of grass next to the highway traveling at 75 MPH. And this made me think about my own personal experiences with tall women, a slightly different story from this blog, but same result due to being a Beta male.
One 6’ tall girl, in a gym, talked to me with such a look of disinterest she couldn’t have looked or acted more uninterested if she had wanted to. I approached another, who I estimated being 5 foot 9 or 10 inches. She got angry with me for even asking her out and stuck her finger in my face informing me she didn’t date shorter men. Online, I met a girl 5’11”, and we worked out together once in my apartment complex gym, after that she did not return my two phone calls. There could be others, too, I just don’t remember them all. Now, you may say the rejections were because of my looks, that could be true, but as I approached girls closer to my height, my success rate went way up.
This blog also made me think about the rejections by tall girls, and it angered me, but not at the time of the rejection. Only years later, when I actually tallied them up, did I get angry. I was rejected not because I was fat, bald, ugly, deformed or had a rotten personality. No. The reason I was rejected by all of these women was my height. Not a one even bothered to put forth the effort to get to know me much less date me.
I did date three women who were significantly taller than me, two at 5’11” and one at 5’10”. (I am 5’8”) And all three happened to be 32 years of age, which is more than a coincidence and a tie-in with this blog. No doubt all three wanted a tall Alfa male, and lost, so a safe stable Beta male was the next best thing in their 30’s, for I certainly didn’t grow any taller and I doubt I got better looking. These women were past their prime and worried. I was in my late 30’s, at this time of my life, after being married for 10 years.
It was also at this time that I could easily date younger women, and I did. When I was 38, my first girlfriend was 27, the next was 27 and the next was 24 who became my second wife. I never dated with any intent of marrying a woman my age. Younger women had no issue with me dating them, and I certainly had no issue dating them. I remember going to singles events and seeing very pretty women, who were my age, who I know 15 years earlier would not have given me the time of day. And even now, they may have looked better than myself, but now it was me who had no interest in approaching them. I did not want to take time and money away from pursuing younger women. Why go old, when I could go young? I was amazed how the dating game changed in my favor. And I used it to my advantage, just as women had done years earlier.
I am now married and have 4 sons. I have 3 degrees, and I have co-authored 2 US patents. I could have provided a good life to any girl. I wanted a taller girl because of the physical turn on and to fulfil one of my desires, yet not one single tall girl (in her 20’s) gave me a chance. I was turned down consistently and without a second thought. (Maybe due to the Alfa male fascination) So, if you find yourself in your late 20’s or early 30’s with no prospect of a husband or children in the immediate future, you have no one to blame but yourself. There were men like me, who wanted a leggy female, but they, like me, were never accorded the opportunity. (This also applies to average height women, too) And the reality is that the vast majority of tall women will not even consider a shorter man (and Beta males) until it is too late. You would think it would be obvious that if you included shorter males (and Beta males) in your suitor selection, your odds would increase of finding a mate. There are a lot more short and medium height males than there are taller ones. So my advice would be to accept the advances of all men and get to know them. I, who would have relished the opportunity of having curvy broad hips and a tapered waist to hold all night and to make love to into the early hours of the morning, was never, not once, even given a chance to start a relationship. Throw away the yardstick, for you may find someone like me, who would love to share his life and love with a tall girl.
By the way, another tie in with this article and be found at this site on short guys.
This writer tells about his rejections in his 20’s by women only to find that women now chased after him, in spite of his height, now he is in his early 30’s. He warns of the dangers of the “Reformed Heightest Woman” who are desperate after wasting their life chasing the Alfa male and now want a stable Beta with a steady pay-check.
Here is another on how women who found the Mr. Average (Beta Males) were worth nothing in their 20’s and now that these women are in their 30’s can’t buy a date, even from the Beta Males on why women lose in the dating game.
During their 20s, women compete for the most highly desirable men, the Mr Bigs. Many will readily share a bed with the sporty, attractive, confident men, while ordinary men miss out.