Do you have a tendency to dumb down around the opposite sex? Psychologists have plenty to say on the matter. It’s about getting what you want, getting what you earn, and projecting the future you imagine for yourself.
Or not.
But dumbing down isn’t a simple issue. It involves culture and conditioning, not to mention personal experience and what was modeled in the home.
For a woman looking to get herself a date (or a mate), it may seem expeditious in the short-run to axe the ambitions or downplay the diplomas. Especially if it’s subtle at first – biting the tongue here, and mincing words there.
Here’s the dilemma. It doesn’t get you what you want in the long run. Not in a relationship, and likely not in life.
Smart is Sexy
Listen, you know my stance on Nerdy Guys.
You know I think that smart is sexy.
But those reflections refer to men – how intelligence, wit, street savvy – all effectively hook and hold the female heart.
So what about the women? What about adolescent girls? Do they – we – still feel compelled to squelch the brains to get the guy? Do we succumb to dumb or dumber? And then what?
Dumb Enough to Date
I didn’t date in high school, though I did in college, off and on. My social life was low priority; I wanted the most out of my education and I got it. It was during those years at an all female institution that I felt my confidence soar.
Yet by the time I was in my twenties and on my own, few men my own age were interested in yours truly.
Twenty-something men wanted hot women or sweet ones, and I was neither. I was well-traveled, independent, attractive enough, and “interesting.” And while I was never particularly aggressive, I wouldn’t dumb down.
So I dated little or I dated older. Men in their mid-thirties to early forties seemed to like my style, and men of my own age – when I was in France – likewise.
How’s that for an intriguing cultural note?
The Times, They Are A-Changing?
Naturally, gender roles have evolved in 30 years – an evolution that has broadened opportunities and created conflict.
I’ve watched with interest as some women friends paired up over the years, and others didn’t. Even now I observe from the sidelines as some of my friends’ daughters form serious relationships, and others can’t seem to find a “good guy.”
Those that marry, as in my generation, are stepping away from their professions or significantly cutting back – generally when they start their families, and lasting anywhere from five to ten years.
That isn’t dumbing down exactly; it is accepting the exact same compromises as women did a decade ago, two decades ago, or even three. The distinction between carrying the lion’s share of compromise and dumbing down is distinct, but isn’t the result still a problem for all of us?
Don’t Dumb Down to Attract a Man
Psychology today offers an interesting article on the subject. Dr. Mark D. White addresses the issue in “Don’t Dumb Yourself Down to Attract Somebody.”
Whether you’re the guy trying to hook the hot girl (and you want to seem more “cool” and less nerdy) or you’re the brainy brunette hoping to catch the eye of the guy who isn’t your equal in the smarts department, Dr. White cuts to the chase for both sexes:
… you have to be true to who you are in order to find someone who likes you for who you are.
… a woman who chooses “to exchange a ten-cent vocabulary word for a five” … backfires: she’s going to get exactly the type of man (or woman) she doesn’t want.
Smart Men, Smart Women
I love smart men – as friends, as intimate partners, as colleagues in virtually any endeavor.
I also love smart women.
I adore the humor, the wisdom, and the unabashed comfort in reasoning, analyzing, questioning, visualizing, and when necessary – playing the rebel.
These are the qualities that keep me coming back for more – along with the emotional intelligence and life experience to temper judgment with compassion.
And they don’t dumb down for anyone.
Older Men, Wiser Men
What I have observed of my women friends who once dumbed down is that they ultimately regret it. They compromise too much of who they are at the core. Resentment festers, intimacy falters, and disconnects create an uncrossable divide.
That said, in recent years I’ve encountered at least a few men in their 40s and 50s, now divorced, who are yearning for more of an intellectual equal. It isn’t about credentials; it is about partnership. These are men who are attracted to smart women because they understand the value of the “whole package.”
Do they still prefer a hot, younger body for sex?
I’d be kidding myself if I said no. Yet in pursuit of more meaningful relationships, they don’t seek a woman who pretends to be someone she’s not.
The Dumbing Down of America
Of course, we have a larger problem at play these days – helped along by a problematic educational system focused on testing success over real learning, and formulaic responses over developing the skills to extrapolate and innovate.
In Psychology Today’s column of December 4, 2012, “Fighting Back Against the Dumbing Down of America,” Nikhil Goyal, a 17-year high school student and author, writes:
With such a heavy focus on what’s tested—math and English—our public schools simply aren’t teaching civics and current events. As a result, a 2007 Harvard study determined that a majority of teens are ignorant about current affairs and do not read the newspaper. Moreover, a Pew Research Center survey found that people age 18 to 34-years-old are consistently less knowledgeable about current events than their elders.
Who will deny that we’re worried over our ability to compete in the world economy? Worried about how ignorant our young adults are on the basics? Struggling with the monumental task of reforming our educational institutions – their methods, their priorities, their expense, their results? Aren’t we rightfully concerned that our young adults are more inclined to parrot canned answers to pass an exam rather than tuning their skills to think for themselves? Don’t we reward the former and dismiss the latter?
Thumbs Down to Dumbing Down
Aren’t we all a little dumber, given our conditioning to skim rather than read, to consume information rather than absorb it and use it to reason, to favor the sound bite over the hearty meal of sustained understanding?
While I continue to worry about women dumbing down and living smaller, discontented lives as a result, we have a challenge on both fronts – the dumbing down (or shutting down) of women, and the dumbing down of America.
I Have Questions; Any Answers?
So where do we begin to solve these issues of wasted human capital?
Early childhood education?
I think that’s a start.
Education reform in general?
That, too.
What about parents of both sexes, married or single, who offer their encouragement to children regardless of gender? What about parents who model using their brains, and fair handling of domestic responsibilities?
At the very least, I would say to all of us at any age exactly what I have taught my sons: Challenge yourself, be yourself, question everything.
And don’t dumb down for anyone.
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I have had several talks with high school girls who do this and it drives me absolutely nuts! Intelligent young ladies somehow believe they must do this to attract boys. I have told them often that they will have a healthier relationship if they are real and show their strengths! I see it every year and I have taught for 13 years. For me, it has to begin in MS and HS….some of the television shows and celebrities they love do not help the situation. I actually offended a high school girl recently because I told her it was time to stop talking like a baby and talk like the intelligent young woman she is. She glared at me. All I can do is try to help on the small stage I have…
So glad to hear that you’re doing what you can, Pam. As a teacher, seeing this transformation (not for the better) must be appalling.
Please do not dumb down. I want smart, intelligent, and well read. 99% of the time we’re not having sex so it’s important to have something substantial and significant between us. Brains are where it’s at. Besides don’t “they” always say that the brain is our biggest sex organ? If we work together, maybe we can whittle that down to 98%.
I’m reading. -wb 🙂
I must be dumbing down way too much. I need to discover what William is reading, or eating…..
I’m very impressed by his 1%.
Maybe you two should chat… I suspect Mr. Belle has many wonderful stories. (If you haven’t read him, Robert. You should pop over and peruse.)
A) who wants a man who needs a woman to be stupid? and B) I agree with you about ‘nerds’; I want a man who is smarter than I am, at least about some things.
I’ve been in the dating game on and off for a number of years and during that time (particularly in the early years) I sacrificed personal wishes, goals and activities in order to find a man. It NEVER worked. But, when I decided to list my degrees on my dating profile and talk about intelligence, confidence, communication etc.. I found that men weren’t responding. I’ve been told by a couple of guys that I came off as a little intimidating! Kinda funny yet sad, really.
“Gentlemen prefer blonds”… the smart ones…given they are gentlemen. Never downplayed.
And I loved your definition of Beefcake – bingo.
Ah ah ! BLW, I read and see that we are thinking in unison in many departments. Of course nobody should ever dumb down for anyone. But obviously it’s easier for men than for women. Dealing with seduction between both sexes in “Being French!”, I spotted the issue and addressed it in a chapter called “Intelligence is sexy.” At some point I quote Natalie Portman when she cleverly states that: “Smart women love smart men more than smart men love smart women.”
And that exactly is where lies the problem, we men don’t really have to be wary of being too smart. The big majority of women will see it as a seductive asset, while as Dorothy Parker was wryly putting it: “« Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses.»
Isn’t it funny that I make my point on this by quoting two American women! 🙂
Smiling at your comment, François. I especially love the Portman quote.
As for the other, men do indeed “make passes at girls who wear glasses.”
Smiling back! Maybe you talk of French men then? 🙂 You know in France we also have this silly rhyming saying: “Femme à lunettes, femme à quéquette!” Which I don’t translate of course, for sake of decency! :)))
Et tant mieux, François. Une expression un peu, comment dirais-je… populaire, n’est-ce pas ?
I have always preferred intelligent women. After a period of time a relationship becomes boring or limited. I like learning and I find intelligent women with different interests helps me grow, improve and be a better person.
I once, in my much younger days, dated a very attractive model you probably have seen in certain magazines. She was beautiful, nice, well meaning, sex was great, good person, but unfortunately stuck for an answer when people said hello. Needless to say it did not last long. “It was not her, it was me” (I know bad tongue in cheek). After the split she was sure I was confused or under a lot of stress, as probably no one ever broke anything off with her. I tried to explain gently and she responded she was now watching Charlie Rose. Sigh.
Quite frankly I like women similar in age and intelligence. In fact I am somewhat in a quandary right now as I am seeing someone a year older who is very intelligent, reads people very well, and understands human relations perhaps better than most professionals. That said she is not formally educated, does not have degrees and is not interested in many things I am. I have never been in this position before. It seems to be going quite well (with a couple of issues to be addressed), but I have mid to long term concerns that interest will remain. Perhaps I am being an intellectual university educated snob. Perhaps not.
Oh, Curtis. First off, you brought to mind one of the very first episodes of Sex and the City. (Sorry, but it’s jam-packed with “real world lessons” for many of us, even if it is fiction.)
Perhaps you haven’t seen it (most of the men I know haven’t), but the episode I refer to is in Season One, “The Modelizer” I think. Naturally, it’s based on a stereotype and plenty of models have brains. But the women in the episode are gorgeous, clueless, and likely bulemic. It remains a reminder that what’s on the outside only goes so far… though damned if most of us “regular women” don’t try to beautify ourselves into that model mindset.
(Another topic.)
As to your current situation, that’s a toughie. Once upon a time I was a diploma snob. Not any longer. Those days are long past. But I do think there’s a difference between having attended college / grad school and never having experienced a formal higher education whatsoever. And while I say that, I also believe the reason for not having a formal education matters. Was it due to lack of opportunity or other circumstances, or not considering that it was important or worth the sacrifice?
Still, I think those differences are more noticeable when you’re a few years past your “institutional” experience than they are a decade or two later.
So I would ask you:
– Do you share values?
– Do you share a love of learning (if that is one of your values)?
– Is she one who is intellectually curious? (I sense that you are.)
– Is she a woman of character?
– Do you clearly communicate with each other?
– Do you laugh together?
– Are you of similar libido? (That’s different from having great sex; I make the distinction intentionally.)
Personally, I find common interests less important than common values (and shared laughter), though without some common interests (think Venn Diagram) I think most couples might struggle.
And I’m still thinking about your remark on “great love” as we get older. (In fact, I began writing on it, but I’m not quite finished yet.)
I would also ask – are you looking to (re)marry? To have (more) children? Are you feeling pressured or rushed or compelled to do anything other than enjoy each day of this relationship for what it is – right now?
I guess I should be watching more Sex in the City!
As to the dilemna of my situation, we do share values, BUT there are two big issues. She understands what I do for a living and why, but has difficulties with it. Second, her children are leaving the nest but it will be some time before mine are.
We do both love learning, but hers is focused on people, relationships and travel, whereas mine is quite broad, from the mundane (e.g. how the latest Chinese freight numbers do not relate to the official Chinese economic projections), to politics, to religion, to art, to sports, etc.
I do not think she is intellectually curious beyond people, relationships and travel, whereas I am.
She appears to be a woman of character.
We communicate exceptionally well and openly.
We laugh together a lot.
We do have a similar libido
Neither her nor I wish to have additional children. Hers are 19, 20, and 21. Mine are 12 and 14 and I have them half of the time. If things progress as I expect I will have them all of the time in approximately another year.
I am open to remarriage but I do not need to remarry. I would be very careful if I did and would take significant time to be absolutely sure. I do not want more children, I have two wonderful girls that need me and are my focus. As to pressure, nothing overt other than “where are we going” and “what are our goals.”
I am quite open and indicate I wish to be content, continue with my work at the level it is now, make sure my children are happy and independent, grow spiritually, travel, grow intellectually and would like to be in a long term committed relationship where I can share my life and vice versa. The difficulties are that she is glad and supportive of me focusing on the children when I have them, but we are relegated to phone calls the weeks I have them. I think she wishes to have someone around all the time but I am protective of my children and their psyches. Hence I do not want to introduce her until I am sure there is a chance of a long term relationship.
We have been seeing each other six months and we are somewhat at a crossroads as to where this will go to. Like many people after divorce, she wants the warranty and guarantee, but none exists for any relationship. I would like a guarantee too but they don’t sell these at Walmart, as apparently they do not make them in China. Things are going very well but she is having difficulty with the week on and week off schedule and when this might change so that the relationship may become more normal, while I become more guarded as to my emotions and the children. I suspect this is building to an impasse.
Okay, Curtis. First, the “disclaimers.” I’m a woman sitting at her laptop far far away, a writer, a mother, a listener… and one who has been divorced for a decade. I’ve got nothing but my own experience to go on, along with a fair amount of reading and listening to the stories of other men and women in their post-divorce lives.
So, take that for what it’s worth, and here are some thoughts to take or leave.
I’m not sure how long you’ve been divorced, but in my opinion, a 6-month relationship is still new – at 22 or 42, single or divorced. In my opinion, people need to take time, really take time, to get to know each other through a variety of ups and downs before committing themselves to a permanent arrangement. When there are children in the picture, it’s even more critical. There can be resentments, there can be attachments formed (and more loss if a relationship ends); there may be issues with the other parent (and your partner’s children), etc.
You might find this of interest (at Huff Post) – it touches on issues of dating after divorce with children. A few lessons learned the hard way, pacing yourself in relationships, paying attention to the impacts on kids, etc.
Most of the people I know went through a period of sowing their wild oats following divorce. It may have involved two people, or twenty-two, but the time and relationships (such as they were) provided a set of experiences that restored some elements of self-worth, not to mention getting acquainted with the dating world again. For the sake of the next points, let’s assume you’ve “been there, done that” and so has she.
The intellectual curiosity differences – the very fact that you’ve raised them in such detail tells me they’re important to you. (This will, perhaps, touch on how you are raising your children as well, challenging the breadth of their curiosity, etc. Will she be supporting you in this, and joining in? Will she bring other elements to your blended family that you can’t provide by way of that ease with people, for example?)
A few things on the children issue.
At one point, when my boys were about 14 and 15, I was seeing someone who had nearly sole custody of his two kids who were about 8 years younger. I was already pretty worn out at that point (I had my boys about 95% of the time, more or less). I was having a tough enough time trying to figure out how I would manage to get them through middle school and high school. Some days I thought it would be delightful to raise two more – and they were great little kids. Other days, the very thought was beyond imagining, even though I would be helping and not doing it on my own.
Now that my kids are (finally) in college – around the same age of your girlfriend’s kids – it’s hard to imagine spending another four or five or more years in the full-time parenting trenches again. Will she feel that way? Who knows. Have you thought about that? (I’m guessing, yes.)
Let’s look from another angle – your girls.
Our children don’t choose divorce. We owe them our best possible decisions when they’re living with the consequences of the end of marriage.
I say bravo for taking your time introducing a woman to your daughters. I think you’re being responsible and thinking about their best interests in doing that, rather than your own.
I keep coming back to two points. First, six months is a short time. And second, the issue of love. While I find I’m usually reminding divorced women (especially) not to dwell in the La La Land of Romantic Love – and hey, I’m all for romance – but to look at values, character, etc. – it’s interesting that you haven’t mentioned love. Or if you have, I missed it.
Given your remark the other day about “great love” at a certain age, and is it possible (or reasonable) or any other variation, I marvel at your thoughtfulness (would that we were all so thoughtful), but how do you feel about her? Passion? Delight? When you’re apart do you miss her? Is there love “enough” to be considering all these other issues? Is there pressure you’re feeling because you believe in a year’s time you’ll have your children full-time, and you’d like there to be a stable partnership for them as a family?
Like I said, my thoughts. However applicable / useful or not. None of this is easy or straightforward. At least, not if you genuinely give it the thought I believe it deserves.
Caveats accepted Madam Wolf.
I must admit I am very committed and devoted to my children. I have realized since the end of my marriage that men are often absent or limited in their parenting of children, parents put their interests first under some misguided pop-culture notion that happy parents means happy children, and finally that while parents navel gaze and bemoan their own existence by a quest to make them “right” they do little to understand, communicate or focus on the actual well-being of the children.
I am most fortunate in that I have the resources and support of friends who guided and helped me. There is surprisingly little information of a holistic approach to divorce recovery for men, women and children. There is surprisingly less information on fathers/males and post divorce recovery with children, other than the “sow your wild oats,” “be a pick up artist”, “god will save you” and “she is a witch” resources. This is somewhat surprising since most males are lesser equipped to understand their emotions, children’s emotions, the emotions of people around them and do not have coffee shop PhDs in psychology like most women.
Then again, if such resources exist would men even access them or would they drink beer, watch football and go to the local pick up joint?
Back to your original article, we have come full circle. Perhaps some men prefer dumbness or dumbed down, because they need to feel somewhat superior or realize they are the dumb ones when it comes to emotions and relationships. Hence male insecurity requires dumbed down to feel good? This sounds like a PhD dissertation topic.
Yes six months is not that long. I agree. While she has concerns since she is free of parenting school age children (and really does parenting ever stop), my intention and desire would be to parent largely alone with a partner who was a friend and support (not a parent) to my children.
Love is something I have thought about for some time. After the end of my marriage I focused on my children and myself. Some crazy ladies approached me right after the split. Does this happen to women as well? I was smart enough to say “I am not in a position to see someone right now.” I did not add “or ever with you whack-a-doodle.” No one warned me of this and two doctor friends of mine said it was quite common. Unfortunately they did not warn me before this happened!
The plan was not to meet someone but rather focus on the three of us. I did not sow my wild oats, date, or have relations with anyone. Did I mention I have great discipline? Really do we need partners, lovers, and mates? At 15 years old did you have a partner in your life and was your life really unfulfilling (other than teenage idiosyncracies)?
While I think I am predisposed to wanting and having a partner and lover, many are not. That said I met this great lady by accident when I was not looking.
Love is something I am not sure I understand anymore. When I met my wife and throughout the marriage I was deeply in love where I cared very much. I would and did all sorts of things for her. My circumstances allowed me to buy her many things as well. Even when things were going poorly I gave her tens of thousands of dollars and personally signed a $250,000 loan for her business that I did not have great belief in. I did this because I wanted her to be happy and not to look back and say I wished I tried this, etc. I did these things and more, including ignoring neon billboard size red flags. Why? Because I loved her, forgave her faults, wanted her to be happy and the love was unconditional.
Romantic? Naive? Enabling? Maybe.
The deception, maliciousness, and fall out of the divorce was like most…….but on steroids.
That is the backdrop for my view of love. Do I care for my girlfriend? Yes. Do I miss her when I am not with her? Yes. Have I read everything on the internet to determine whether it is love, infatuation, sex, temporary, etc? Yes. Do all internet sources indicate it is love? Yes. Is there passion? Yes. Do I find I feel like a teenager at times? Yes. We have only argued a couple of times and have never fought. Do I think of her needs and wants, and vice versa? Yes. There is more as well.
That all said do I think I am going to be “blown away” at my age, with my experiences, education and newly acquired great interest in relationship psychology? I am not sure. If I am correct, I am probably in love. If you can be blown away at my age, then perhaps I am not.
I’ve always regarded myself as just smart enough to know when I’m with someone smarter. Such as my wife.
There are few people more irritating than those women who intentionally act like bubbleheads and the men who fall all over them. I have not seen many in my life time, but I have known a few in school and at work. It is actually painful to watch.
So, no, I have never dumbed down for a man. I’ll credit my mom, who never backed down or changed herself despite the fact that dumbing down could have saved her a lot of hostility over the course of her long marriage. (My dad would tell me to reach for the stars but somehow for his wife he wanted someone “lower.”)