“Don’t take it personally,” he says.
We’re talking business – a situation I find myself in, uncomfortable and uncertain. It concerns payment, and the most appropriate handling of a delicate matter.
“It may not be personal, but it feels personal,” I say. “It feels like disrespect.”
“That’s a woman’s response,” he replies.
I know him well. He knows me well. He means no offense by his observation, and I let it sink in. I mull it over. He may be right. But if he is, I think that’s a little sad.
Shouldn’t it feel personal to a man as well? Doesn’t it – to many men?
Like women I know, I connect dots that aren’t always meant to be connected. But as far as I’m concerned, pay for work equates to value for any of us – and some of us, more than others.
Value equates to self-esteem. And we all know women tend to have more esteem issues, and asserting our value – especially when we’re young – can be a mixed bag of the personal, the professional, the substantial, and the superficial.
It’s a quagmire.
Men and Low Self-Esteem
“It’s about self-esteem, isn’t it,” he says.
I smile.
“There’s an element of that, yes.”
“Women aren’t the only ones who are insecure,” he continues. “Men have esteem issues, too. Some of our insecurities are the same and some are different.”
I sit with that thought for a bit, and it calms me to detach myself from “personal” work-related annoyance. I’ve never thought about men and low self-esteem before, though I feel foolish even admitting as much.
Sure, we (women) hear stories about short men needing to prove themselves, so they tend to be more aggressive or they pick fights. Is this always true? We hear about (or experience for ourselves) the way in which men with less than average “endowments” compensate – in bed, and in life. Sometimes the compensation is great! Other times, quite the opposite.
These are stereotypes, and I’m loathe to blanketly believe stereotypes or generalizations.
But a little poking on the Internet leads me to an article from GOOD on men with low self-esteem. I’ve always instinctively steered clear of a man who doesn’t think well of himself, which brings me face-to-face with how contradictory that is – considering the amount of time I’ve beaten myself up over, well, almost anything.
And I say that as a woman who is, nonetheless, self-assured in many areas of life.
But men with low self-esteem?
They may withdraw or snarl when we’re successful. Or act out the typical passive-aggressive behavior. They may cave when we need them to stand strong – disagreeing with us because we need the challenge to arrive at better decisions.
They may undermine their own potential, not unlike women who sell themselves short.
Men, Women, and Compromise
“As for my little drama,” I say, “I know it isn’t personal. It’s organizational. It’s the economy. But that doesn’t lessen the frustration.”
Even as I the words tumble out – fully believing them – I have one of those flashes. You know the sort. You realize something. About yourself.
It isn’t that I expected to change the situation I find myself in; I expected to change myself to accommodate it.
I am woman, hear me roar? Sure. Sometimes.
And just as often – I am woman, I am chameleon. And it isn’t always a good trait.
Whether or not I’m responding too emotionally, I’m kicking myself over something I should’ve known. Something I did know, but I gambled that I could deal with it, find a way to manage it, contort my work schedule and budget to adapt.
I’m finding that I may have been wrong. I’m realizing that repeatedly setting that sort of expectation of myself is something to pay attention to.
Can You Change a Man? Can You Change Yourself?
The irony is, I’ve found myself here before. In business from time to time, and in relationships all too often.
And no, I don’t think you can change a man.
Tweak his look? Certainly. His behavior, attitudes, values? Not so much. People change when they choose to change. To attempt forcing anything else is foolish. But then, I’ve always gone for men who can hold their own with me. They don’t lack for self-esteem. If anything, they may lean slightly toward arrogance – something I’ve learned to steer clear of as I’ve grown older.
Is arrogance and a need for control a sign of insecurity? Maybe. Then again, maybe not.
And the Nice Guy with confidence, who doesn’t look to run a power play?
In my experience, he does exist. But given what we seem to expect of our men in this country, he’s hard to find.
Personal vs. Professional
So I don’t think I can change a man, but I do invariably reshape myself and sometimes over-compromise. That’s a problem, knowing full well that compromise is essential in any relationship.
Personal, or professional.
That said, being too ready to bear the larger amount of giving in – or giving – will engender resentment, and possibly a good deal worse. Sometimes it hastens the end of the arrangement, or at the very least may cause an outburst that could have been avoided.
I think of my marriage and the way it played out. Did I sell myself cheap right from the beginning? Did I fall prey to that tendency as the years rolled on?
Have I learned anything in the decade since, and been able to change myself – and my choices?
Can I apply the same principles in my professional life? Wouldn’t that be of benefit? Or is all of this oversimplifying?
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Hmmm…I’ll have to ponder this idea that value equates to self-esteem. Or maybe it’s just that self-esteem has been belittled? I know that when I screw up at work, it matters to me, and yes, I do consider my quality of work as part of my value as a human being. And I don’t really understand how one doesn’t, but maybe that applies more when people don’t care about their job. But to me, that doesn’t equate feeling insecure or having low self-esteem. It just means that I have to get better at it.
You ask some great questions.
I honestly think most men would never ever take the time to ask themselves similar questions.
They are what they are, and most of the time it’s women who choose to adjust ourselves…or not….to them.
At least, that’s been my general observation.
Self-esteem often has a dubious connection to self-competence. Are students who have performed poorly on an exam truly the geniuses that they will sometimes present themselves to be? Doubtful – it’s much more likely that they’ve been through the trendy self-esteem mill, so that they believe they know math when in fact they are ignorant compared to college standards in the rest of the world.
Fran has talked about issues of self-esteem, even while she is (as has been acknowledged by others and sometimes by herself) one of the sharpest and most forceful persons I have ever met (and good looking in addition). So what does it mean?
I have sort of gotten over the whole issue. Who care? At one time I felt I fell far short of my goals (of course I did, because I set high goals), but after speaking intimately with others about this topic, I discovered that for all my perceived uncertainties, I wasn’t the mess that others were. And I’m OK to leave it at that, although one must accept (to an extent) certain losses as one ages. But that’s normal – I shouldn’t take it personally.
Connecting dots that weren’t meant to be connected? I think women (sorry -a generalization here – but stems from years of observation and living) do this connecting way more than men. Maybe exclusively. It’s our nature. Sometimes the connections cause us unnecessary stress and emotional angst. Sometimes the connections are how we build community and hold families together. So it’s a good thing/bad thing.
Confidence in a man? Yes. So appealing. But so is a bit of vulnerability. It’s a delicate balance. Again – many, many shades of grey.
Funny, to me, that you used the word quagmire. I couldn’t help the mental flash of Quagmire, the cartoon character on Family Guy, that popped in my head. Talk about your insecure, over-compensating male figure.
Unfortunately for quite a few men, self-esteem is completely connected to two things – the size of their income and the size of their penis. These men are not men I ever enjoy being around.
That being said, I don’t think women are any more adaptable to change than men are – but I do agree that they will be more likely, in most situations, to give in first. Is it just how we are? I don’t know.
Sharon, I tend to agree with you on how men ‘measure’ themselves, knowing it’s a generalization, and having known exceptions. As for women giving in, is it nature or nurture, or sometimes – fatigue?
April, For some of us, including me, pay rate equals value equals sense of self-worth. Not the only measure of course, but significant.
I am often one to connect the dots, even if they are more sketched in than inked in. I like to think of it as an attribute of an analytical mind, but more often than not, my tendency to draw conclusions causes me unnecessary frustration. Then again, there are times when there is a reason that I’ve jumped to a conclusion: when that conclusion is correct!
As with young girls, young boys are stereotyped also. They are taught to be the stronger sex. To be the bread winner. To be successful. To protect and provide. If they are unable to do this then, yes, it affects their self-esteem. As my children grow they see both my husband and I doing the housework and bringing home a paycheck. I hope we are doing our part in raising a generation that breaks down these stereotypes.
What have folks been sold, to equate self-esteem with money earned? I was paid less them my kids’ first grade teachers. It’s hardly relevant — it was enough to support a family of five with no one going hungry or cold. Of course, my values somewhat follow the values of my family, which definitely did not equate financial success with life value or esteem. We knew our share of wealthy blowhards, male and female, and no desire to switch places with them (even dated a few females of the sort, and was happy to move on).
Paul, As usual, you touch on several extremely important issues. (I don’t know how you found this little hang-out, but I’m certainly glad you did.)
First, in the corporate world, money and / or title are measures of “success.” Should they be? That’s a related discussion, but the fact is – they are. If you’re a woman and you find out that your male colleague is earning more – doing the same job, with the same education and experience, not to mention the same performance appraisals, that undermines your sense of esteem, not to mention – is infuriating!
If you are the breadwinner, and you cannot pay all the bills – in other words, you aren’t able to feed your family, doesn’t income – sufficient to do so – become a measure of worth? More specifically, if you are and always have been a provider and find yourself unable to provide for your family, you feel like shit.
As to pay scales, let me say this. I believe our nation has fundamental challenges that reflect our values, or to some extent, the values of those who call the shots. That a superb high school teacher working 60 hours week makes half what an average marketer makes is just plain wrong. Teachers should make $100,000/year if you ask me – and we should be looking to recruit the best of the best, because our children (and future thinkers / innovators / artists / workers) deserve that best start and best possible education.
As for some of the other screwy ways we “compensate” people that reflect our indifference? Don’t get me started.
All that said, I do understand your point. The value of a human being is not in a paycheck, or a job title. But I’ll return to basic Maslow. If the fundamentals are shaky, the rest is irrelevant.
A brave writer to tackle such a sensitive topic. I think there are broad generalizations, some apply, some fit a person but not the bunch, etc. Self-estem for some is a life long battle, for others, it’s never a question, and for some it’s a gamble from one day to the next.
I recognize this situation – what was meant to not be personal at all – I have taken personally what was meant to be an objective (and even helpful) perspective. And the man in man life experiences this as well, from time to time. Sometimes it has to do with a work related issue, or a family one. Sometimes it is a differing opinion between us. It’s the between us stuff that remains the challenge. As for the other stuff we can reality check with the other.
So, I see it as an ebb and flow. I am sure there are some people who have low self esteem in all or most areas, and other people to whom it would never occur they were not kings or queens. I see the reality as being somewhere in the middle for most of us, feeling we are not quite up to snuff if things are simply not going our way, and needing a little confidence boosting from someone who, hopefully, loves us.
In terms of value relating to self esteem – Even though I equate my “value” with the valuable work I do, I also tend to compare myself, from time to time, with those I know who have made tons of money. Sometimes I feel a strange mixture of envy and disgust. I have work that is valued (by my community) and that I take great pride in and, monetarily, I have enough. I would never want to trade places with someone who makes their millions at the expense of others or the environment. I have had some of the wealthy people in my life say they lack the feeling that what they do is truly valuable since it is so removed from connecting with other people. But I don’t see them do much to change that.
Good questions. Men and their income and their titles and their partner’s income in comparison and competition of stuff I think leads to their self esteem insecurity issues. I never find income as big of a self esteem issue with women.
Business and esteem is similar to relationships and esteem. I once asked my male boss for less title, and less of a raise in exchange for more vacation days. You would have thought my head turned into a toad! After that it did not go well for me because I was looked as not a true Team Player. I quit that job. In hind sight I would have more subtly asked for what I wanted from this male dominated job.
Both sexes are stereotyped and some of this comes from simply the way we are wired. The other day my grandchildren had a lemonade stand. The girls busiest themselves with making signs, getting organized. And the boys went around smashing the lemons.
There is a difference between changing for someone and compromising on some issues. We feel pressure the same way that women do but it is a different sort of deal.
A man who can’t support his family gets hammered in ways you might not notice. We don’t always notice it either, but from the time we are born there are a million messages fed to us that say that is our job.
I have been the father who lost his job and walked into the house, looked around and thought “WTF do I do now.”
It doesn’t matter if you have a spouse who is supportive. It is like dumped in an icy lake and kicked in the balls at the same time. Before I experienced it I had never worried or wondered about it. I was just going to get it done because I always had.
FWIW, my best relationships followed what some people would consider more traditional arrangements. No one had “control’ but we assumed the “natural” roles, whatever that means.
And I would add that women respond differently when men act like men than when we act more like women.
I hear you, Jack. I may be a woman, but having been raised to be “independent” and always able to take care of myself financially, and having done so since I was a teenager, when I went through it – it was devastating. Especially with two little kids depending on me.
I know I react quite strongly when I feel I’m being disrespected, dismissed. I tend to leave. This is always my final remedy; not sure if it’s a good one, but there you are.
I’ve read that women are better at change (chameleon-ity?) than men because it’s our biology. It made sense when I thought about onset of puberty, pregnancy, child-rearing, menopause, empty nest… Men particpate in much of that, but without quite the same physical involvement. I don’t know if they experience empty nest so much either. I don’t think being good at change is a bad thing. One needs it to survive.
I think loads of men have self-esteem issues, but I don’t think they dwell on them. You know about women looking in the mirror and seeing the parts they hate, men look in the mirror and see the parts they like? I suspect that the internal stuff works in a similar way. I think men focus on what they are proud of and don’t worry about the niggling doubts much.
That said, some of the most arrogant, pompous bullies I’ve met dyed their hair, had nervous tics, wore bad (is there any other kind?) toupees, continually bragged about the new car, the big motorhome, whatever. I’m sure they had loads of insecurity tucked inside their swelled chests, fuelling ugly, inappropriate behaviour.
Going back the business of coping with change, one thing I noticed at work was that women worked to adjust to the new situations, to fit in with the new plans. Men – and a very few of the women I saw – seemed to change the situation to build their own empires. It’s not a skill I ever developed, but clearly a good one to have.
Ah.
Reminds us of that Nora ephron line in you’ve got mail.
“it’s not personal, it’s business. Why does everyone keep saying that? It was personal to ME.”
_tgx
I agree with Sharon above – men tend to derive their value from their net worth. I cannot speak to other measures but I think they are human. If they feel they are not measuring up, their self-esteem will take a hit. I think they’re just better at deflecting and less better with self-reflection. Women are thinkers and tend to be more introspective (in my personal, non-scientific, stereotypical opinion). 🙂
I can think of a few comments
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“I’ve always instinctively steered clear of a man who doesn’t think well of himself…”
Don’t both sexes gravitate towards self-confidence? After all, who wants to be with a wimp? Nothing is more attractive (sexy?) than somebody who is good and knows it. I’m not talking conceited as I said “knows they’re good” not “thinks they’re good”. People who are actually good don’t have to prove anything; they are already good.
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Self-esteem? Insecure? Moi? I tell people I just took one of those Norwegian ice water baths. (Yes, with men it always comes back to that. Ha ha)
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“Can You Change a Man?”
Wikipedia: I Love You, You’re Perfect, Now Change 1996 stage play
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Personal vs. Professional.
Negotiating: at the office, at home, at the playground, at Starbucks. Is there more of a connection than we think?
Wikipedia: The Art of War: Application outside the military
It may seem strange thinking of such a reference in terms of the personal as opposed to professional, but let’s not forget, Love is a Battlefield.
There’s a lot of pressure on men to act confident. There’s pressure on women not to be too assertive. I don’t know which is the worse deal.
I think a man’s self-esteem is more tied to his wallet than his penis length. But more than either, it’s his height. I’ve never met a short man who wasn’t messed up by it in some way.
I hear you, Wolf. But as a woman who has dated very tall men her entire life (6’0 to 6’5″), and I’m (cough, choke ahem) 5′ tall when I tease my hair, I can say that $$ or Euros or penis length all come into play for the Big Guys. As for the little guys (height wise), I do think they’re at a significant disadvantage, especially in the US. So does 5’5″ count? I’ve met one who’s not only not messed up, but as spectacular as they come. Big heart. Big brains. Big humor. Big… everything that matters. And no, wallet isn’t in there.
😉
I believe men are more fragile than anyone cares to admit. I seems that many men gauge their worth by their professional position within a company or organization. The more prestigious the title/salary, the more value they have as people. Perhaps that’s why, when faced with a demotion or firing, men will sometimes take it very personally.