“What do you think?”
She holds her hand out to me, each of her long fingers extended, and the fourth lifted upward, slightly. She is in her late twenties, possibly thirty. Her gray eyes sparkle and she possesses a quality that is refreshing and understated in comparison to her co-workers. She is certainly a pleasant change from the overdone “everything” that I usually encounter in the Cosmetics Department of my local Macy’s.
The ring is a princess cut diamond (she tells me), set simply, and it is well-proportioned for her hand.
“It’s lovely” I say. “How long have you have you been engaged?”
“A year,” she answers. “And no, we haven’t set a date yet.”
I’m intrigued. This isn’t the usual.
Meet and Marry?
“How long have you known each other?” I ask.
“About a year and half. We knew right away that we would be together, but I’m divorced and I have a five-year old. So we got engaged after knowing each other six months, but we’re in no hurry to marry.”
She pulls her hand back and closes the small compact she was showing me a minute earlier.
“He has a child, too,” she continues. “Our kids adore each other. We’re happy with the way things are.”
And she beams.
Attitude of Gratitude, Dating After Divorce
I had stopped as I was making my way out into the main mall. We quickly swapped single mother dating stories, as I was peering at Dior duos, and then she shared her happy news.
The young woman herself is lovely. But lovelier still is her attitude as she explains that the long engagement suits her fine – and him. Especially after divorce.
“I made one mistake,” she says. “That ended in divorce. So I don’t want to make another, especially because we both have kids.”
Apparently, their families are happy with the situation as it is, at least for now. Their commitment is clear, they are living together and adjusting nicely, they both have children so the biological clock isn’t ticking, and neither feels pressure to set a wedding date.
She smiles again. “So far it’s been wonderful. And we’ll get married eventually. For right now, I love my ring, our children are happy, and we’re happy.”
Time to Heal Between Relationships
Following divorce, we’re wise to be wary of rebound relationships, realizing we’re especially vulnerable after a breakup. We know we have healing to do, yet we don’t always take the time we should. Instead, we remind ourselves what it takes to “date,” we distract ourselves with romance and sex, and generally, these transitional relationships don’t last.
As for this single mother, I’m not certain how long she was on the market after her marriage ended, or if her fiancé is the only man she has dated since that time. Nor do I know if she experienced a starter marriage, though technically, the presence of a child means it was more than a theoretical marital misstep of short duration (the definition of a starter marriage). Whatever the details of her story, she was taking her time – at least with the engagement – all the more critical (she pointed out) when there are children in the picture.
Second Time Around
Some rush to remarry, claiming practical considerations as well as individual preferences. The comfort of spouse and home is essential, or perhaps finances play a role whether we care to admit it or not. For others, we find that we, ourselves, are “enough,” or perhaps the opportunity for a good relationship never presents itself.
Then there are those of us who enjoy life as a couple, but we feel no particular requirement to scramble to the courthouse for that second time around, or third.
But I do like the concept of a long engagement – or even an indefinite one – as if the fact of the commitment is sufficient to satisfy those who seek signs of stability, without forcing an artificial timetable.
Committed Cohabitation?
Is the long (or indefinite) engagement the same as committed cohabitation? Does it show that a man (or woman) is or isn’t entirely marriage-minded? Can an extended engagement increase the likelihood of a healthy marriage?
- Do you believe every woman wants to be married?
- Do you believe that men are happier and healthier if they’re married?
- If you enjoy a long courtship, are you inclined toward a short engagement?
- Is there merit to a long engagement, no matter what the circumstances?
- If you’re planning a wedding, are you sufficiently focused on the marriage itself?
- How does the picture change when there are children of previous unions involved?
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I was married at 19 for 20 years and now divorced and single for 22. I like my single self and enjoy the company of men but love my girlfriends too. I never wanted to remarry or live with anyone and that is how it has been. I am my own person and set my own agenda everyday and as I age it gets better and better.
I hear you, Madge. especially since you married so young!
I will say, to me the ideal living situation is Carrie and Big (married or not)… about 5 days together out of every 7. ‘Twould be nice if her shoe wardrobe came with the deal, too…
🙂
Still reading daily. What about “definite engagement,” as in a clearly apprehended mutual condition of holding the other in the forefront of life?
I know this sounds a bit goofy; and, perhaps impractical. God knows I need health insurance and a bit more money. But, those drives cannot be the primary reason for living as fully engaged.
Engaged: less a social state and more a stance toward the world, that might not distinguish between the sense of “flow” in honest work, the click-clee sound of wintering cardinals, a cloud shrouded night, or the face of any sleeping baby, or the veins on the back of a beloved’s hands.
So glad you’re still reading, NoName. I often think of you and wonder how you’re doing.
I agree that medical insurance and a bit more money shouldn’t be the impetus for “legal” consummation of a committed relationship. (Then again, shouldn’t we all have a right to health care, regardless of marital or employment status? Another topic, I know.)
I always love the poetry in your remarks. And the way your unconventionally pragmatic-romantic mind works.
I was in a horrible, sham, of a marriage, to a man that was abusive and controlling. I cannot imagine why anyone who has been divorced would ever even entertain the idea of getting married again. Obviously you didn’t’ mean “till death do you part; you got divorced”. And people tend to pick the same type of person over and over and over, so the possibility of repeat failure is still there. What can you get from marriage that you can’t get any other way? (Maybe health insurance?) One of my divorced friends got married yesterday. Her ex is a drug addict that sold drugs w/ their (then) toddler in the car. That boy is 5 now and the custody war continues. Another friend is engaged to marry a man who just finished a lengthy and mean spirited divorce. Her divorce, 15 years ago, was from a man who beat the crap out of her on a regular basis, and took every penny she had in the divorce. Her children are grown and gone now and she has a home. He’s moved in with her and they are not getting a pre-nup. Each of these scenarios screams in my head, “Danger Will Robinson”. Long engagement? How about permanent engagement. Just the thought of getting married again makes me about have a panic attack.
Thank you for joining the discussion, mightbeatranny. And I hear you. I do. Some have horrible marriages and equally horrible divorces, quite possibly with a horrible aftermath that at least provides relative relief. While I might have an experience that makes me very wary of marrying again, I also recognize that some have marriages that are good for a long time but “wear out” for many reasons. Their divorces may be unpleasant, but they don’t leave the devastation which divorce can visit on others. For these individuals, the thought of another marriage isn’t so daunting.
Certainly, your examples are cautionary tales. (Believe me, I know they are reality, and not fiction.) And I understand why you’re seeing all the flashing warning signs!
My personal feeling is that people should take plenty of time after a marriage ends, to get to know who they are, what went wrong, their part in it, how they might choose differently and do differently in the future. As you say, however, all too often we don’t do that, and we repeat destructive patterns.
“Apparently, the rest of their families are happy with the situation as it is, at least for now.”
At least for now? And what if they aren’t? I would think they are old enough to not care what the families think.
@Mark, I understand what you’re saying, but in my experience, parents and friends start to pressure for marriage as time goes on, certainly if more children are wanted.
I don’t know.
I don’t think there is a point or even truly such a thing as a permanent engagement since an engagement is a promise or even commitment to marry.
As for the length of an engagement, well long is relative and the context of situations vary. To me being engaged means there are plans in the making. Those plans may not be significantly active if the context put the couple apart—say war. During WWII couples could have been engaged for several years and yet unable to marry due to physical separation.
There could also be an engagement with plans to marry after graduation…though right-out of college undergrads are a bit too young in my opinion. But perhaps grad students.
Other than that, being engaged means planning the wedding—even if that is merely a trip to the judges’ chambers. It means looking at dates and choosing one.
As for the length, I think 1-2 years is good. I think 6 months is fast, though doable. But the time that I feel is more important is the time together before the engagement and subsequent marriage. Our culture of serial monogamy has people shacking up within 6 months and then planning to marry after another 6 months. They may get married at that year mark or plan to marry within another 6-12 or do the no-date and no plans thing you are talking about.
I think a couple should know each other—as dating partners—for at least 2 years before planning their wedding…planning signifies engagement. I think they should know each other as dating partners for at least 3 years before actually getting married.
“But I do like the concept of a long engagement – or even an indefinite one – as if the fact of the commitment is sufficient to satisfy those who seek signs of stability, without forcing an artificial time table.”
Is the time table artificial or the stability? Is being permanently engaged a form of denial for some—not all? If you are not going to marry is “engaged” just a label you give so others are more accepting of the permanency of your commitment?
What is a “sign” of stability? I don’t mean that literally—I’m not asking you to show me evidence. I mean it in the same way I mean if I say what is a communication, or what is a compatibility—show me those things. Often they are not objective. Stability is something a couple builds together through concerted effort. Sadly there are plenty of marriages that lack stability, so the (sorry) lesser level of engagement certainly doesn’t seem like anything to do with stability either.
And after divorce… um yeah a good long time to recover, and to do one’s own mirror-work…before dating even casually. When Sweetheart first left I drafted an absurd timeline. Absurd and yet I believe in it, but it was absurd because at least at my then 32 I put myself out of the fertility market in a new marriage…and that was before I even knew I would be prematurely menopausal. Dating casually 1 year after a divorce was finalized—and how long that would take with me contesting who knows. Then it might take a while to find the right person. Then 2 years dating and 1 year of engagement—minimums. Then a minimum of a year together before trying to have kids. My absurd timeline gave about 7 years until I would be trying for a baby again…ironically it will have been that many years in just a few months and here we are trying for a baby and toddler…through the foster/agency route though.
I knew it was absurd. But marriage is important and not something to jump into because I want children. I knew that I needed to increase probability for stability and success with the longer timeline. And I admit to be a bit stricter than most.
There are other exceptions. A wonderful man from church just remarried. I knew both he and his wife—he was the only person at church I confided in after Bomb Drop. One morning his wife saw me crying in the pew before services and just came over and held me—she did not just sit by me, she scooped me into her arms and rocked me and let me cry. I loved them. Well, she died just before Christmas 2 years ago. The next Summer he said he was getting married. Last Summer he did remarry a woman he had known for 63 years and their families knew each other. They are both in their 80s and he is glowing. My Mom’s cousin’s wife died when he was ~56. He remarried a friend of his wife’s a year later. He is also still glowing. I think there are exceptions to the timeline with increasing age. (Not that I’m saying 56 is old or anything!)
You always give us so much to consider, RollerCoasterRider. And thank you for sharing more of your own story. You certainly were logical when assessing what your future might hold, relative to timing – even optimal timing, and meeting someone else, as well as building a family together. Life does through us curve balls of all sorts though, doesn’t it.
I love your stories that are exceptions here as well, though someone told me long ago that if a person can have one good, solid, reasonably happy marriage, he or she is likely to be able to do it again. (At the time, the context was definitely widowhood.) Whether or not that’s purely an old wive’s/husband’s tale, who knows. But your stories remind us all that we can meet someone with whom we wish to share our lives – and at any age.
As for the marital question? I doubt we’ll agree on that one. I’m open to many types of arrangements and commitments, and I can see value in a long engagement, especially in this example where the woman is still (in my opinion) quite young.
I don’t have answers to any of the questions, but I love this line:
we distract ourselves with romance and sex
It’s not only after divorce that we do this.
You make me chuckle, Wolf. What better distraction, at any stage?
I remarried in 2010. He’s nothing like the first hubby, though I do believe we get into patterns if we’re not careful. I did NOT jump back into a relationship … I’d been separated for a year before my now hubby came into my life. We dated a year before getting engaged and were married 6 months later.
I have relatively younger kids so I did not want to live with him without being married. Just didn’t seem prudent. If they were older I may have felt differently.
I was with my ex husband for 4 years before we married (all of college) and engaged for 2 of those years. I no longer think long engagements are necessary and just because you date for a long time doesn’t mean you really know the person after all.
I guess I say it’s up to the couple … if they’re happy and it works for them then I’m totally for it!
It does seem to be about individuals, yes. But tell me Soccer Mom, do you think maturity (and a little luck) come into play?
I’ve been engaged for a year and a month now, we still have not talked about plans or dates. If anything is said, I’m the one to bring it up but only because I’m helping my newly engaged friends plan their weddings. How do I bring up at least plans or even a round about date? We have been together 5 years. This should be the least hardest thing to talk about lol.
Thanks for stopping by and reading, Marie. This is a toughie. Does this mean you’re ready to move from “indefinite” to definite… and he isn’t? Are there reasons he may not feel especially ready and now you are? (Money, kids, jobs, biological clock, health issues…)
Maybe the money situation, but I don’t mind waiting and saving… I just want to know that I can start planning, at first we were waiting till after our daughters first birthday which was a legit reason but now I would just like to at least talk about it. All my newly engaged friends are getting married and they just got engaged a few months ago. I dunno, Its Probably Stupid To Think about.
I’ve been engaged for a year and 4 months now. My fiancé and I got pregnant after knowing each other only 4 months. It was an unplanned pregnancy, but we were in a committed relationship. He proposed when I was 5 months pregnant and we decided to put off any wedding plans until after we had our son. We live together and still haven’t set a date. I genuinely love him and would get married tomorrow, however I recently found out that during the pregnancy he cheated on me with prostitutes. Now that this has come to light, I don’t want to get married unless I see over time he has found ways to deal with his sex addiction.
I am staying in the relationship because I love him and want our family to be intact, but I can’t think about totally commiting to someone who betrayed me like that. He has made big efforts to attend sex AA and keep himself out of tempting situations all in an effort to fix himself and build back trust.
After knowing him over two years now, I feel like I should either call it quits or accept him and get married, but I’m unable to do either. I feel stuck and scared of being hurt again, but also hopeful, and scared of losing something good.
I don’t know how old you are, Songbird, or what your financial situation is. But were I in your shoes, I would look into my legal rights and his legal rights in my state of residence relative to seeing and supporting the child.
Keeping the family intact is always very important. And in my opinion, raising a child with two parents – in a good relationship – is ideal. But it sounds like you have reason for the trust issues. I certainly would not jump into marriage, and I would seek counsel from a professional who could help you assess your situation.
That all sounds very businesslike, and I can only imagine the many wrenching emotions you are dealing with. Such a tough situation.
Seek professional advice if you can.
@D. A. Wolf Thank you for your reply. I am in my early thirties and have a stable job. I have looked into custody rights in our state and it is 50/50 shared between father and mother. I hate the idea of having to be away from my son half the time. I will not jump into marriage to try and fix something that’s broken.
You sound very wise, Songbird. I wish you well, and please do stop by any time and let us know how you’re doing.