Hot off the French (online) press… Mini-skirts are making news. Huh?
So why is debate heating up over the mini in the Midi? Um, isn’t France the land of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity?
It seems the drama is actually playing out in a middle school in the suburbs of Toulouse, where administrators are taking exception to the sheer shortage of fabric in flirty feminine fashion. Hmm. Might this be a boundary-crossing issue without national borders? I recall experiencing this phenomenon here in the US of A. Dress lengths rose to the dismay of adults in authority (yes, pants drooped below undies on the young men), and dress codes were imposed which became, themselves, divisive, distracting and virtually impossible to enforce.
Kids rebelled. Parents yelled. Dress code?
Felled.
Hemlines and hemlock?
So what’s up with this outcry? Is this poison pen pouting over personal panache? Or legitimate concern for overly exposed girls? What about the 10 centimeter rule that is proposed? That’s about 4″ and I must say, that’s not a particularly mini or micro-mini hemline. Is it crazy to specify that 4″ above the knee is acceptable, but anything else means a coup de fil to a parent or a kid being sent home?
And 10 centimeters above the knee for a girl of five feet is a very different matter than the girl who is 5’8″ in height. That hardly seems fair. As for the teachers who are stating that students wear attire that is convenable (appropriate), isn’t that as much as we can do?
- Does anyone have the right to tell you what to wear?
- Do you have the right to tell your kids what to wear?
- Do dress codes (for teens) ever work?
- What wouldn’t you wear?
Youth and Fashion
Not only does this polemic remind me of the original debate over the mini (in the mid-sixties), but apparently reports in French media indicate that in some instances, appropriate dress has been an issue at the university level as well.
Isn’t it natural for the young to rebel through their fashion choices (whether we adults give them a thumbs up or not)? Aren’t they bound to express themselves in hip hop style, hippie style, grunge, emo, or whatever dress garners attention or illustrates individuality? And while Mary Quant is considered the mother of the mini and mod style, the British designer was actually inspired by an idea from French design house Courrèges, in 1964.
Wouldn’t that make the French the originators of the modern mini-skirt?
The clothes make the man (or woman)
So is the mini a French faux-pas, or is this report one more indicator that parents anywhere have the same issues with teens? One can debate what is appropriate fashion for a given venue, but these aren’t adults, which is the point. Does that call for being stricter? Or rolling our eyes and knowing that this behavior is a phase?
We all know that first impressions (and second, and so on) count. And while the clothes may not entirely make the man – or the woman – choices in attire in adolescence are part and parcel of growing up. And Toulouse is located in the South of France. Surely in warm territory, a short skirt is doubly cool?
My view? Let kids be kids. And I am certainly a fan of the mini-jupe, if you’ve got the legs and confidence to carry it off.
…
I’ve heard people say that once you hit thirty, you don’t do the mini. And for some inexplicable (and in hindsight, ridiculous) reason, of all the sage advice out there, this decided to stick. Now when I even try anything on that’s more than 2 inches above my knees, I balk. Not sure if it’s just really because it’s unseemly or because someone somewhere once said I shouldn’t.
And because of this, I want to be careful with what I say to my toddler. She already has a favorite pair of shoes which she wants to wear with everything – even when they clash horribly with her outfit. I am tempted to say no, as all eyes would be on me if people think I failed as a parent for not “dressing her properly”, but then I hold back: she will be who she wants to be, good for her that she is not held back by self-consciousness, which can sometimes be debilitating, and I’m glad she doesn’t yet understand the impact of judgment. She will have the rest of her later years for that.
And I have faith that, having chosen her own path, she will know how to defend it, and even celebrate it, on her own.
I say good for you, for letting her be herself! (Amazing how remarks made to us about “musts” and “shoulds” stick. Sadly, some of them just squelch our individuality.)
I think style is a personal choice…I sure as heck wouldn’t want someone telling me how to dress. I’ve always let my kids choose their own styles whether or not I liked them. I figured there are much more important battles in life.
Most schools have dress codes, and my kids will follow them. I don’t support dress codes, per se, but it’s important that my girls learn that sometimes, even if they don’t like it, there are rules they have to follow.
Employers have dress codes, sometimes. And rules. If you don’t want to follow those rules, you get fired. As an adult, it’s your choice. As a kid? Not so much.
If they want to wear something that’s not against school dress code (eg: Gothic black, green hair)…I won’t like it, but I’ll allow it. It’s only clothing, only hair. And (hopefully) it too shall pass.
This phase does seem to be at its worst in middle school, and “wear off” (tra la) a bit by high school.
I disagree with you on this one, Wolf. Yes, dress codes have certain incongruities, yet the dress codes are there to protect the girls AND the boys. Let me explain.
We have seen an onslaught of sexual activity amongst students and faculty members. I would venture to say the reasoning behind this is due to some certain fashion styles. Girls dress provocatively, guys look. It doesn’t matter what age the guy is. And, sure we could tell them to not look but, seriously? Can YOU not look? I know that when a woman is wearing a short skirt and/or low cut shirt, that is the first place I look! It draws the eyes!
At the same time, what are we teaching girls when we applaud their provocative dress choices? Why DO they wear them? To attract the attention of the opposite sex. Do we really feel comfortable with our 14-year-old girls attracting the attention of the opposite sex, whether it is a 14-year old boy, an 18-year-old boy, or a 40-year-old man? Sure, you may be comfortable with teen sex, but at 14??? I don’t know.
I will enforce a dress code with my girls AND boys. I want them to not focus so much on the outward appearance but focus on how beautiful they are inside. Cliche? I know it sounds that way, but I really mean it. I don’t want them to need validation from the opposite sex to feel beautiful. That is what immodest dress is–validation whether negative or positive from other people.
Ha. There are my thoughts for the day. ; )
I’m not in favor of sex at 14, or 15, or 16 for that matter. But that’s me. And the way I’ve raised my boys, and yes, it is different with boys in some respects, and in others, not so much.
I wonder though – schools that try to enforce dress codes (and kids always push the limits and find ways around them) – is the incidence of teen sex any higher than for kids who go to Catholic schools, for example, complete with the Catholic School uniform? Or any other uniform-enforced environment? I have no data, but I doubt it.
As for rules – I’ve also taught my sons they need to follow rules in the real world, and look at them in terms of consequences if they don’t. My kids followed the dress code (while it lasted), but found ways to express their creativity while technically following the rules. In other words, they were expending time, energy and effort on getting around rules that could’ve been spent on schoolwork.
Then there is the fact that some girls got around the rules by wearing outrageously short shorts, technically not covered in the rules – and far more daring than some of their skirts.
Then what?
Doesn’t much of this responsibility sit with the parents, and how we raise our kids?
Mini-jupe?? No, no, I think they meant mini-oeuf, you know, the Cadbury variety?? (Sorry, still hopped up on Easter candy.) Seriously, I dread the day my daughter starts expressing/exploring her identity by wearing teeny-tiny skirts, but I recognize that it’s an important part of figuring out who she is. As long as she never, ever leaves the house wearing an outfit that has words written across the seat …
“…if you’ve got the legs and the confidence to carry it.” I think THAT is the key. I really hope someone would tell me if I was wearing something that was completely unflattering, revealed too much, etc. Leggings, mini-skirts, low-cut tops are all suspect. They require the careful eye of a dear friend, not just my glance in the dressing room mirror.
Husband and I just saw a teenage boy in our neighborhood last week and said “We’d never let our kids dress that way!!” Of course, it’s easier to say in a hypothetical way than to know how we would actually handle the situation.
You can’t just let kids be kids. As a former teen boy (now a man), I can tell you that a mini-skirt clad girl in math class would have consumed my attention and been a major distraction to me actually learning. Of course, as a teen boy I would have argued to the school that kids should be allowed to wear whatever, just so I could keep seeing those legs on that girl. But I’m older and wiser now.
My daughter’s school won’t let girls wear skirts or shorts that are too short. The test: if you hang your arm straight down and your fingertips are below the hem line, the shorts or skirt are too short. A little harsh, since soccer and track shorts would be too short by that rule, but it keeps dress less risque and keeps kids focused on learning. – Until after school when they can oggle the soccer players and track runners all they want!
🙂 Ogle? Really? Teens? (And adults, too?)
I wore a uniform throughout grade school and it offered one distinct advantage to this style-challenged gal: no pressure to figure out what to wear every morning! Good thing I have your style series over at Divorced Women Online to help me remedy that issue in my adulthood!
Merci for the Style Series plug, Kristen! (Yes, I’m writing on perking up the fashion fancy for Springtime, over at Divorced Women Online. And no – you don’t have to be divorced to read over there! (There are men reading as well, and plenty of single and married women, too – I hope! This week is a series of fashion topics, the French way. Hope you’re enjoying – and doing your homework!)
I’m with Amber on this one, with a few more thoughts. As the mom of two, now grown, daughters, I enforced a “dress code” for school before they left the house. No belly shirts, excessive cleavage (high school), no Daisy Duke shorts or skirts so short (or pants so low) that there’s little left to the imagination if they sneezed. I used to disagree with school uniforms because I believed one should be able to express personal style (to a point). Now, I’m not so sure. Teenage status seems to be so very dependent on what designer label in on the butt. If the playing field was leveled in school, maybe they would spend more time thinking about learning something rather than what others had on…or didn’t have on.
I know all too well how teens will try and get around the rules every chance they get, no matter what they are: curfews, dress codes, driving rules, etc. Does that mean we don’t lay them down anyway? Even though our kids think they know everything, it’s our responsibility, as reasonable adults, to teach them what is appropriate and what is not. Young women need to be taught how to dress attractively without looking trashy. Very hard to to with our Hollyweird culture. School is their first “workplace.” If they aren’t exposed to these social moires now, how do we expect them to know how to play by the rules when they actually get into the real workplace?
As an instructor for a local university’s advertising capstone class, I enforce a dress code for all final client presentations. I tell the young women in advance that if I see cleavage or even a little peek of belly skin, I will fail them on the spot. The young men have their dress rules as well. You would be surprised at what is sometimes considered “presentation attire” at dress rehearsal. Most of the time, they are following the latest trendy fashion, regardless of how (in)appropriate it is for the situation.
So, there’s my thoughts for the day as well.
“Hollyweird” – great way to put it.
I do think you said something very important, Lisa: “… it’s our responsibility, as reasonable adults, to teach them what is appropriate and what is not.” To me, that’s a parent’s job. If they hit middle school and they have no clue, it’s a bit harsh to lay it all on the school to put the brakes on.
Boys (and men) will be turned on by teen girls, as one commenter above pointed out, but that happens irregardless of what they’re wearing. My 15 year old could wear a sack and look sexy. I do monitor her neckline but I also want my daughters to feel great about and celebrate their bodies. We need to stop blaming teen girls every time men cannot control themselves. The rule in their middle school was to put your arms down at your sides. If the skirt was at least that long it was okay. That seemed fair. I’m 5’9″ with long legs so saying 4″ above the knee is a very different rule! At the HS out here the only rule is T shirts aren’t supposed to advertise alcohol or drugs. I’m not big into dress codes. I’ve seen kids who wear uniforms still find a way to make it different and belittle other kids with the same uniform because of something else.
I say a round of applause to this, Maureen:
“We need to stop blaming teen girls every time men cannot control themselves.”
Suggesting that if teen girls dress provocatively, then a boy or man cannot help but lean toward certain actions seems like it’s edging toward “she asked for it.”
The shorts. The SHORTS. Shorts are, as you put it, not covered by the rules but are often as offensive. I see what you mean. I don’t recall specifically what our dress code was, but I do remember that our shorts and skirts had to reach our fingertips or something.
I hope I didn’t imply that you were okay with teen sex, I was more looking at a world perspective, you know the “they are going to do it anyway” perspective. I, also, disagree with teen sex. Not just the sexuality side, but the emotional side. I could (and possibly will) write a whole post about how teens are NOT ready for sex emotionally . But, that is for another time.
What I was trying to refer to is that a dress code isn’t just for the teens, but also for the adults around them. I know that men and women need to be constantly vigilant about keeping their minds clean especially when they are in a teaching capacity. I think that a dress code helps enforce this. Does that make sense??
As for creativity, Wolf, I really LOVE that your son found a way to express himself even with the rules. I think that that shows great parenting. Rather than rebelling, he (or both) went with authority yet maintained his own style. It is something I not only applaud but respect.
Finally, (I promise I will shut up after this) it is the parent’s responsibility to teach their kids. Surely. I will be doing just that in my own home. Yet, we talk about village parenting, aren’t some of society’s rules part of “the village?” To help maintain homeostasis within society in which not all parents will teach their children?? Now, I am still figuring this out and whether I agree with it, but that is the thought I had.
Yep. The parents’ responsibility.
I have to say that my summer wardrobe – skirt and skort wise much different than other seasonal wear – is easily the length in the photo you have provided. I do not tend to wear heels with skirts in the summer but I do wear things a bit short and am pushing 50. It does not phase me as long a my bum is not showing.
As for dress codes, NYS requires schools to have them as part of their student code of conduct. I went so far as to call a news station the year the temps were in the 90’s in May and June. The reason – no spaghetti straps. The problem – no air conditioning in the school buildings. The bigger issue – the high school principal’s attempt to have 50 young girls either drive themselves home or call their parents to come get them was more of a distraction than their spaghetti strap shirts would ever be. Do I believe rules should be followed? Yes. I also believe rules should have a reason.
Oh, the spaghetti straps! Yes! They had that rule in place, and it was absurd. I live in a warm climate. The kids were hot hot hot (and I don’t mean sexy hot) – and there was absolutely nothing inappropriate in those little tanks with spaghetti straps. Absurd, as teachers were required to call a parent or send a kid to detention.
And therein lies an example of the problem I have with all this. Battle lines are set up and a ruckus is caused that can pull a kid out of class, and a parent out of the workplace. Often unnecessarily.
There are times when I wish my children went to a school with a specific dress code, that would alleviate the mornings of “what am I going to wear.”
My high school freshman daughter and I have never had clothing battles. My son will be starting middle school in September and right now, a pair of shorts and t-shirts makes him happy.
As I type this I somehow think I just jinxed myself and that the battles are forthcoming…. 🙂
Like Kristen, I was spared of this drama and trauma as I wore a uniform from grade school through high school.
But yes, it seems odd that Toulouse would have an issue with this. Still, women and girls should be able to wear what we want to wear. Whether it’s comfort or style or self-expression that we’re after, we wear what clothes work for us and there’s no need to mess with this arrangement. Those who look and react should also be able to wear whatever clothes they’d like. Their actions and reactions are theirs and their’s alone and not those of the short skirts. Clicking over to the Style Series now…
Oh, I wish I, like, Linda, has no clothing battles with my curvy daughter (only 14). How many times have I said “large” while she said “medium”! But that fight is just for the weekends, thank goodness.
Having my daughter wear a uniform spares us fights at 5:30 a.m. — and whatever the school’s rationale, I’m grateful for that.
My kid’s school doesn’t really have a dress code, mostly guidelines. I can live with them because they aren’t so limiting that the kids can’t express themselves.
OK, I’m in… I work in a high school and let me tell you, these children do not know how to dress and somebody has to tell them. I’m sorry but it is not appropriate to see that much cleavage, all those thongs, boys’ boxers, both above the pant line and through the huge rips in the their pants. These children are exposing themselves and yes it is distracting for everyone. The girls are spending way too much time worrying about their appearance and I kid you not, I’ve seen boys walk into lockers because they are enjoying the view down the hall. Not every parent is home when the kids leave the house, not every parent knows what their child is wearing to school. Spaghetti straps are usually accompanied by a generous display of breast which is the major offense there. There is a clear line between self expression and blatant advertising. The problem is, many kids don’t know that and don’t understand the message they are sending. And yes, you can say people shouldn’t have such dirty minds, but, they do.
I’m with you on “let the kids be cool,” and this also brings to mind the notion that the economy rises and falls with hemlines… so maybe all countries should make a big effort to show more leg in an absurd attempt to further a world economy that has, arguably, given up the ghost. Yet if the spirit is willing…
Great post. Great conversations. I am of two minds on this one. On the one hand, I am easy-breezy let kids be kids, let legs be legs. But then. Then I think about the two little kids under my roof. How they will, in the blink of an eye, be teens, limit-testing, short-skirt-wearing, creatures and I shudder. This is a tough one. But, as always, you present this topic in such a graceful and thoughtful manner.
I’m another one whose kid attends a school with a dress code. There was a huge uproar when it was first established, but now most parents agree that it is so much nicer to have that concern off your back. Our middle schools do not have a dress code, which means girls like my sister can dress as provocatively as they like… and hoo boy — do they ever.
However, I see the other side, too. I was the kind of teen who dressed differently. In my day, it was sheer hippie skirts with tights and combat boots, piercings, shaved heads, etc. School attire has definitely moved in a sexier direction. But I loved expressing myself and using my clothing to show people who I was/am.
I’d love my kids to have that opportunity, but I also keep in mind that they have weekends and vacations to dress however they want. That’s enough for me.
From the time my kids were little, it seemed like we were always running into some pretty scary looking teenagers at the mall – and lots of things look scary to three and four-year-olds. I would tell them that all clothing sends a message, even the clothes I was wearing (“mother dressing too young while in her forties”). So the question was, what was the Goth clothing and the chains and the black mohawk and all the piercings supposed to tell us about the person inside. My kids shuddered and said, “Scary.”
They came away understanding that clothing tells something about who we are and to dress in a way that reflects their innermost self. They both tend to look askance at the whole “dress for attention” thing and both of them have a very clear sense of who they are – so far – inside and out.
I totally dig Linda’s comment. It took me a while to understand that clothing indeed reflects who we are and also that it draws a certain kind of attention — is it the kind of attention we are looking for? It gives off an impression — is it the impression we want to give off?
So looking at your clothes as an expression of your true self is cool. However, I do believe that we need to go through a few wild phases to figure that out. I’m torn on this one. Dress code or no. (I also totally identify with where Aidan was going in her comment.)
Um, me = scatterbrained. But I’m HERE!! Woohoo!
I have to chime in with Dad’s House and others on this. Expectations have to be established or else the learning environment is destroyed. How it is done is important as well.
The dress code rules in my school district are similar to the ones in his. The added element is that our school district focuses on the distraction element. Attire that is too distracting to the learning environment is addressed. The dress code statement goes home to parents every year and they have to sign off on it every year. Students wearing clothing that is too distracting (i.e. the short skirt in math class or the shirt with the crude language in 4th grade) get sent to the office and are provided with stock clothing to change into until the end of the day or they have to call home.
Now, whether I agree with those rules or methods of enforcement or not, is a different story and I won’t go into it here, other than to say, it seems to me like a wonderful opportunity to teach children about the appropriateness of certain attire in certain settings. If the attire for my position is to wear a certain style of clothing and I choose not to, I might be called out by my boss. Even if I’m not reprimanded or fired, my credibility as well as my promotability will go down. I never think it is too early to begin telling a school age child that how they handle themselves now will determine the range and variety of their choices in the future. Appearance is also a method of communication. What are they communicating and why. Social acceptance is important and a huge motivator for people. Academic success is also important though the child might not understand why. It doesn’t have to be an oppositional fight. There are ways to meet those conflicting needs for all. It just requires time, patience, clear expectations and lots of dialogue. Having those conversations with kids and letting them think all that through is important when establishing expectations.