Yesterday, I mused on the conflicted feelings I have about my son working so hard in his high school program. Watching your child sit up most or all of the night, studying, is not the worst thing in the world. But it can be a concern, when you see it happening a good deal.
My example has always been a work ethic that is – well, unrelenting. When it is a matter of responsibility about a project, to a client or employer, or in particular, regarding a piece of writing.
The salt mines?
I am, in general, a hard worker. It is my tendency to throw myself into whatever I do with full engagement. I have no doubt passed along this behavior (and its value) to my sons. I expect it in them, as they have seen it in me.
Certainly, in other areas, I have no such tendency. For example, I clean when I absolutely must (and then the minimum). I can also say that I haven’t thrown myself into my social life, as I always have into my writing.
I recognize that when I am engaged in a pursuit, I am passionately engaged. I love the feeling. The intensity. The sense of losing myself which leads to finding myself. But I think back over 20 years in a corporate career in which I gave 200% and it became habit. It was also expected by my co-workers and managers, which isn’t an enviable position in the long run. Particularly if you aren’t compensated for that effort – or, if you don’t know how to transform it (and the accomplishments that result) into “the prize.”
- Do you work too hard?
- Do your children work too hard?
- Is it a matter of going for a specific achievement or compensation level?
- Is your motivation internal or external?
Working hard in partnership
Long before I married, I put in many hours. First, into my studies. And later, a 60 or 70-hour work week was routine while 80 hours was not unheard of. In part, it is my (Type A) nature. But I was also in learning mode, and the extra hours gave me a sense of achieving expertise faster. I won’t say that an element of insecurity didn’t rear its head as well. That nagging sense of “not good enough” was always there, so I worked harder. And harder still as a woman in a career field (and later a business school) where there were relatively few women at the time.
During my marriage, both my spouse and I worked hard. He traveled, so he was gone a great deal. He mixed play with his work, while I took on parenting with mine. We were not working hard in the same way, not together, and I believe that affected our relationship.
- If you are the primary breadwinner, is money your motivation for hard work?
- If your spouse or partner is the breadwinner, does he or she work too hard?
- When you work hard – truly hard – is it a matter of passionate engagement?
- Do you work as hard in your relationship, or is it compromised by the time and effort elsewhere?
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© D A Wolf
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Christine LaRocque says
Like you, I tend to throw myself headlong into things. I get a huge feeling of purpose when I’m really enjoying, learning, contributing. But since having children, I’ve found less energy for that, less energy for much beyond my children. It has translated into a lot of things that I’m not happy about, but probably the most in my marriage. We simply have so little time for each other. We are too busy rearing our children, taking care of our home and trying to find time for ourselves. I know this is not good and that we might live to regret it, but we do have good perspective about it all.
BigLittleWolf says
I think this is so common in marriage, Christine. We adore our children, but they sap energy from us. And the juggling of home, family, and work knocks us for a loop. Most of the couples I’ve known over the years haven’t made explicit time for each other. Some have been fine, and others, not. My case was extreme, because my spouse traveled so much. I will say that those I’ve known with kids who had a regular “date night” seemed to benefit. Yes, you have to find someone to watch the kids, and something affordable to do together, but it seemed to be good for the relationships. Not something we did in my former marriage, though I’m not sure it would have made a difference in our particular case. Too many other things that didn’t work.
Justine says
I used to work long, hard hours pre-baby. I realized that to get ahead in my company, a woman works twice as hard as the men and so I did. I was also very passionate about my job but after the combination of having a baby and being jaded about management there (the boys’ club), now I put in just enough effort to get by. It’s no longer worth it to me to “fight the good fight” at work. I’d rather focus my energy on my kid, and my partner, who used to be neglected due to my work. Much more rewarding that way.
Now it’s my partner’s turn to work really hard, taking on extra work that removes him from some family or couple time but we both know it’s a necessary evil now and try to compensate in other ways. We have faith that all this will pay off in the end.
BigLittleWolf says
I am curious about something, Justine. You said “… to get ahead in my company, a woman works twice as hard as the men.” How long ago was this? And do you still feel that is generally the case?
It is my impression that while women have made progress in the past decades, it is not nearly as much as some would have us think – in terms of actual opportunity or money. I’ve now been out of the “big time corporate loop” for 8 years, and only intermittently in and out of it while contracting – at levels which are lower, and where you typically see as many women as men. So I’m interested in your impression, fully aware that each organization is different, as is each industry and region. Clearly, market and other factors come into play – it’s never about one thing, such as gender.
Rebecca @ Diary of a Virgin Novelist says
I flow in and out of working too hard, which maybe is good? My corporate career was much shorter than yours but it was long enough to teach me that that is not a life I want to live. On the flip side, sometimes I wonder if I am reacting too much to that old life and thus, not working as hard as I optimally should?
BigLittleWolf says
So what would be an “optimal” amount of work for you, Rebecca? How would you determine what that is?
Justine says
BLW, I STILL work for this company. One out of its 8 exec mgrs is female. 80% of middle managers / staff who do the real work that keep the company going are women. This boys club is a very real phenomenon at my workplace. I’ve seen a man get promoted twice in the course of a year whereas a highly capable, backbone-of-our- operation-type woman get promoted once in two years. It’s disheartening.
But it may be an anomaly. I don’t really know since I’ve not worked in larger companies. We have fewer than 50 people. I hope it is in any case. I don’t plan on staying here forever and would like to be someplace where there is true equality. Or is that still a radical / mythical concept?
BigLittleWolf says
Thanks, Justine. You’ve sparked an ongoing set of questions I’ve been playing with for some months, and sent me off in another (interesting) direction since your first comment. I appreciate the clarification.
As much as I’d like to believe it is an anomaly, I doubt it. That’s gut talking, and not data. And I have many reasons (not necessarily the fault of organizations) for believing that. Still, I think old habits die hard – including in the workplace, and in traditional models of “leadership” and decision-making.
True equality, as you say, may be a radical / mythical concept. It’s also a fluid one. Equality as measured in what way, and in what context? We could go off on quite a tangent there alone, and by industry, by region, looking at opportunity or job titles, looking at salaries or compensation. Looking at numbers in other ways.
I do look at data from various sources at specific points in time (when writing related material) – and as we see the number of women entrepreneurs on the rise, or women in small sized businesses as a growth sector, I can’t help but think it’s because the traditional workplace continues to throw up barriers in many more ways than we realize. This is particularly the case for those women who are raising a family.
Other women out there to comment, with their experience?
notasoccermom says
I find myself working less and less hard. I have lost the fight. There was a time when i pushed and pushed and worked hard wishing to climb the ladder.
Much like Justine, I found it was the men around me promoted. I work in a traditionally male field of Engineering.
I returned to school full time, a single mother, their father 2000 miles away, and working full time. I struggled but was determined to ‘do it all’. Here i am 8 years later, I am not any further financially, or ranked at work. But I have three grown children I am so proud of.
I still cant seem to make the ‘boys club’ but I feel proud that I have accomplished all I have. I know what i am worth. I know what I am capable of. I wish better for my own girls
BigLittleWolf says
Do you really feel you’ve lost the fight? So you, too, experienced the men moving up, while your work didn’t garner the same rewards. How much did your parenting activities (and related conflicts, changing priorities, and use of “non workplace” time play into the mix?
And you certainly should be proud. Raising three kids to adulthood as a single parent? I get it. I also get that you wish for better for your girls, than the struggle you’ve been through.
Eva says
Oh, much to comment on here!
Husband and I talk about this a lot, mostly because he has some frustrations at work. He has great internal drive. I don’t think it’s a serious insecurity or need to achieve or Type A style, I think he just doesn’t see the point of *not* working hard. Unfortunately, some of his close coworkers are not so hard working. And this becomes incredibly frustrating, to see others wasting time when there is much to be done.
I strongly believe in balance. When he talks about coworkers wasting time, I ask him to think about this more. Are they getting up for a physical break every hour so they can be more productive overall? Are they chatting with other coworkers for a reasonable amount of time, an important social aspect of the workplace? Or are they really being lazy?
One thing we do to keep from working ridiculously long hours is carpool. By riding together, we keep each other accountable. We will work late sometimes, if needed, but most nights we are able to stick to our schedule. And I realize we’re lucky to have jobs that don’t expect 60-70-80 hours a week.
BigLittleWolf says
It sounds like you and your husband came up with a very practical and enjoyable way to ensure time together, no matter what. Kudos on that one!
dadshouse says
I worked too hard when I was in Silicon Valley high tech. I had no balance in my life. I’ve since corrected course. I still work hard, but I set my own hours, my own goals. I’m not as well off as I could be, but I’m more at peace.
Life is about “being”.
BigLittleWolf says
I love the concept of “being,” DM. But sometimes, it’s hard. Good for you for making it and keeping it a priority.
Stacia says
In my first post-college working years, I worked too hard, didn’t take care of myself, and didn’t make time for relationships in my life (including my fledgling marriage). I was literally sick and tired all the time. But I felt like I needed to work harder, get more done, show my bosses I was an asset, and constantly do more and be more. It simply was not sustainable.
Then we decided to start a family and my body would not cooperate because I had taken such poor care of it for too long. That’s when things changed for me. I still have those tendencies to overdo it, to (try to) be a perfectionist at everything, and to take care of myself last. The difference is that now I have a solid, supportive foundation (my husband and children) to keep it all in perspective (and keep me in check).
BigLittleWolf says
Kids do give us a different perspective, don’t they, Stacia. Why do women seem to work so hard and not take care of themselves? I know many women like this, and am guilty of the same thing. Are we still doing this – until something slams us in the face and tells us to STOP?
Contemporary Troubadour says
“Do you work as hard in your relationship, or is it compromised by the time and effort elsewhere?”
Mon mari et moi, nous sommes en train d’examiner notre mariage. A cause des circonstances difficiles (les problèmes crées de la distance physique, de la façon dont nous étions élevés), nous n’avons pas l’habitude de discuter ce qui nous gêne. Au moins, pas franchement. Nous essayons de changer, de chercher les mots pour nous aider.
BigLittleWolf says
La distance rend tout très difficile. Mais maintenant que vous êtes ensemble, vous avez l’occasion de recréer une vie intime dans tous les sens. Pas simple, je sais.
Kristen @ Motherese says
In my career days, I worked way too hard and it was a major stressor on my relationship with Husband. He was right in complaining that I prioritized my commitments to my colleagues and students ahead of mine to him, to our relationship, and to, at times, my own well-being. Back then I often conflated – incorrectly – a demanding job with one I felt truly passionate about.
Fast forward to the present and my current job as a stay-at-mother of two. I suppose that I don’t work as hard as I did when I was working for pay, but the schedule and the demands are much more chaotic and I find that unpredictability frustrating and stressful. I wonder if I really would prefer a set schedule with as many demands as I had as a boarding school teacher or if I am looking back at those days with a grass-is-always-greener attitude.
BigLittleWolf says
When your little ones hit preschool, you’ll be back to structure that allows you to manage more easily. Babies toss everything up in the air, don’t they? I, too, was used to working hard and long hours within very structured environments – school and work. You make an important distinction between a “demanding” job versus one you felt passionate about. I’ll be rolling that one around for awhile, fully aware I’ve had many demanding jobs, and few that fed my passions.
TheKitchenWitch says
I’m not so sure I work as *hard* as much as I work endlessly and mundanely. For me, that’s the bitch of it. You cook a meal, someone needs a snack in 2 hours. You clean, it’s messy in 45 minutes. You wash, dry and fold the laundry, then look in the basket and it’s already 3/4 full. I think that’s what does it for me…the sense that I’m not really accomplishing anything permanent.
Maureen@IslandRoar says
It’s funny, my mantra with my kids has been Exceed Expectations. I haven’t had an uber career because writing has been my lifelong passion. But whatever I did I tried to exceed expectations: nursing, certainly parenting. Even the marriage, but that failed anyway. I guess I apply that same attitude to family and life in general and hope that does trickle down to the kids. Then maybe they’ll realize there’s more to life than career and that both deserve to be worked on to get results.
Jane says
My parents had a strong work ethic. I have a strong work ethic. I thought I learned it from my parents. Then I had kids. I thought I would lead by example. Ha! As I was reading your post I was so jealous. A high school student, throwing himself into his work, working so hard that his mother was concerned? Oh how I wish I had your problem!
BigLittleWolf says
Your comment made me smile, Jane. But it’s a tenuous balance. You want your kids to own their dreams, not yours. And when you see your kid stressed, it’s hard not to worry. I know he wants a break. He needs a break. And he’s headed into a rigorous academic summer program as well – but at least, he’ll have a few weeks in between to “just be a kid.”