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[...] D.A. Wolf’s dream about a college reunion led to her musing on women and their relationship with other women: “I don’t understand why we criticize and compete to such an extent, when we’re [...]
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[...] D.A. Wolf’s dream about a college reunion led to her musing on women and their relationship with other women: “I don’t understand why we criticize and compete to such an extent, when we’re [...]
Wow. Your comments are an echo of some things I’ve been thinking about. Why do I look at a woman and think ” she should take better care of herself” or “why doesn’t she…” As if I were the final arbiter of taste and style. Believe me, I’m not. I don’t goosip but I think even have that sort of commentary running through my thoughts is negative- so now I try to change the tone of commentary to something positive.
Marilyn, Lovely to have a new commenter! And I know exactly what you mean. Believe me, I’m not immune to exactly the same sort of running commentary in my head. I find that I’ve trained myself not to do it much as I’ve gotten older. Perhaps comparisons are natural. It’s the negativity, as you say, that can be so hurtful. To us, as well as those we direct remarks to.
Unsettling dreams…I’ve had a few of those. I used to be very sensitive to others’ judgment of me…and I also used to be very judgmental (talking about women here). Interesting that the two co-existed in me, right? But when I began to realize that my judgment of other women seemed to boil down to a perceived (by me) competition and how I measured up next to that woman, and that my harsh judgment was usually a mirror (what I often found to be critical about was also a [sometimes well-hidden] flaw in ME). Ouch. So I straightened up. When my mind goes there about someone I shut it down and choose instead to love. To try to see that person as God sees them. Yes it takes conscious effort, but I realize that the things we think about directly influences the way we act…and I want to treat others with love and respect. So that drives me to keep a handle on my thought life. Am I more critical of women than men? I probably was, due to the competitive nature of my judgments.
Regarding gossip, nope. Not into that. And people don’t really seek me out to gossip. I have never watched any of the “Housewife” reality shows…I just don’t find that kind of stuff entertaining (I know, I’m in a minority). Not trying to be holier-than-thou…I have my vices (People Magazine? Yes.) but I find “reality” TV to be a little disturbing. The more outrageous and/or messed up people are, the more we like it and I guess, the better we feel about each other.
I had a conversation with a guy friend earlier today about the judgment issue. I don’t see it in men. Not the gossip either. Other ways of being competitive (or feeling good about themselves), but somehow, less petty.
Nothing like so-called Reality TV to point out how we don’t want to behave.
Like Marilyn, I read your post thinking about ways that I am guilty as charged. I am definitely quicker to judge another woman than I am to judge a man. And I’m not proud of it.
The older I get, the fewer close friendships I have – with women or men – but I also cherish the friends I do have more and more. Just today I was lucky enough to have lunch with a female friend who just absolutely gets me, who has my back, and who will challenge me when I need it. Does she judge me? Maybe a little, but, I think, only when I could use a little judgment.
You indicate that judgment may not automatically be bad, Kristen, which is an excellent point. Input from those who know us (and others) can be helpful. It’s in how it’s delivered, and likely the motivation as well.
I think at times we are all prone to judge. What I’ve learned is that it hurts the most when those judgments are hurled in your face and you are left to defend your actions. I think most of us are seeking affirmation and that the bulk of us are privately wondering whether we are good enough. We don’t need a larger audience to participate.
I try to avoid gossiping by switching the subject. Sometimes I am not successful – I am making a conscious effort of conversing with people who want to talk about ideas, rather than stir the pot.
I hear you, Rudri. I like your method of shifting away from those who would gossip.
Oh, we share the same alma mater so I am sorry to hear this. I too have been thinking about this a lot, and am drafting something up on female friendships. But it’s a hard one to write because I’m afraid to be completely honest.
I really agree with you that female relationships can exhibit the best and worst of womankind, often in the same relationship with the same person! And I’ve been on the receiving end as well as have dished it out. My first job was in a small office of 7 people – 6 women and 1 man. The man was the one “normal” person. The office was otherwise dysfunctional – a real fishbowl of gossip, backstabbing, cattiness, bullying, etc.
But of course I’ve experienced some of the most amazing support and bonding with fellow women too.
I read an article once that when a man sees his buddy with a hot new girlfriend, the man is likely to give him a high five; if a woman sees her friend with a gorgeous new hunk, she is more likely to want to scratch her eyes out. I wonder if little girls had more opportunity to play and work on teams more (like team sports), as little boys do, if they would relate and interact differently with other women as adults. They might get used to seeing that another person’s strengths do not detract from her own abilities, and that there’s plenty of reason to want your fellow teammate to do great. I know that’s a simplistic solution but it’s a thought.
I do maintain my friendships differently now. I’m afraid to get too close. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a female friendship that has weathered hurt feelings well. We can’t talk about them – we try, then we cry, and then we back away. With my male friends I just tell them what I think, and you can hardly sense any bump in the relationship. So I keep a certain arm’s length from even my best friends. I miss out on the possibility of greater intimacy, but by keeping this safe distance I feel I am putting my relationship less at risk.
I judge. All this time I thought I didn’t but I do. And I definitely judge women more than I do men. My husband does not judge.
Oh, so much to think and talk about!
If it could be arranged, I also would like to continue reading you when I’m no longer alive.
You always seem to know what I have been thinking about!
Most people have a tendency to confide in me and I think it is because I am a good listener. I do not judge because god only knows I have hardly had an exemplary, “unstained” life therefore I am the first to remind myself that I NEVER know why someone has walked in the direction he/she has walked for whatever reasons he/she may or may not have had at that moment. “Those who live in glass houses…”
I tend to “weather “ out my female relationships VERY carefully. Like Kristen , I now recognize the female friend “who just absolutely gets me, who has my back, and who will challenge me when I need it.” I have a great amount of respect for someone that can “call me” on my excuses…
I stay away from gossip. IF the occasion arises I listen but do not participate, thus the occasion rarely arises
I have now come to the stage in my life where it does not matter who “likes” me, what matters is whether or not I like him/her. My time is valuable, I am greedy about who I give it to.
Being a good listener. So important. And that doesn’t mean you have to talk talk talk after that… A good point, La Bergere.
I’ve had several sad dreams lately, about things I feel I’ve failed at. I didn’t leave work on a high, I left to survive. I’ve fallen away from running, I simply can’t keep up. My fitness is dropping and my weight is rising and I can’t seem to get back into better habits…even my subconscious is lecturing me now! Must get a grip…
Shelley, I think women are really hard on each other, and many of us, harder still on ourselves. At a certain age, most of us put on weight, even if we’re exercising and eating well. We need to stay healthy, but it’s a shame that we hold ideas of what we’re supposed to look / be like through every stage, including as we get a little older. Media reinforces this unrealistic idea.
But I get the feeling, and the lecturing. And the sense of failing. I hope there are some dreams that counterbalance that – all the good you do in your life, the good things you share with Bill, with your friends, with your readers.
I think it’s because, on some level, we have decided not to really fight the social dynamics that keep us unequal, and so we can only turn on each other.
Interesting perspective, Cynthia. And thank you for joining the conversation.
Slowly, we’re changing the game when it comes to a number of areas to do with women’s lives. So why not this social dynamic as well? I’d like to think we could.